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An Update to Our Community and an Apology

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Re: An Update to Our Community and an Apology

#111
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why does the stack network ( https://stackexchange.com/sites# ) have any advantages? I see a lot of complaints, about questions closed as redundant etc, and about moderation, but what keeps someone from putting a better version up? In particular unlike quora, the reputation of the person answering doesn't seem as important. most people would accept anyone's answer as long as it works. so what's the important network…

My impression is that the network effect comes from where people choose to go to ask questions. You go where you know your question has a good chance of getting answered. As such sites grow as "bases of knowledgeable people", they become a Schelling-point pulling people-with-questions toward them. That's the first-order effect. The second-order effect is that people who are familiar with one of the StackExchange site…

That is true but SE gained a critical mass of answers by encouraging one set of behaviours through its points and badges system, then pulled a bait-and-switch and told those subject matter experts that they were no longer welcome. Wrong demographic, see.

SE is dying. The quality of the questions is falling because being welcoming to new users is deemed more important now than the newcomers absorbing the culture. Questions go unanswered. The real technical Q&A is on Github now. But this is what Spolsky and Atwood wanted all along, good luck to them with their new community of newbies and SJWs.

Re: An Update to Our Community and an Apology

#112
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it came out that she'd been removed for refusing to use people's preferred pronouns. That's not true. She was removed for asking whether, after the not-yet-current CoC was made official (which asks to use preferred pronouns) it would be allowed to use third person pronouns to circumvent the issue. Neither was preferred pronoun-usage a rule, nor had she disobeyed that rule (yet).

If you don't know someone's gender or preferred pronouns, it's reasonable to use "they/them". If someone has explicitly asked you to use "she/her", and you exclusively use "they/them", you are still not using that person's preferred pronouns .

Well then too bad, that is going too far.

When did it become a cultural imperative to explicitly call out someone's gender. This is not the same thing as misgendering someone. It's one thing to say "he" when someone wants "she." Doing so is antagonistic. But the English language has perfectly usable neutral pronouns - "they" and "them" -- which are serviceable whenever the gender of the parties in a discussion are immaterial -- which is the majority of communication on the Internet and out in the open. I will continue to use them, thank you very much. If you explicitly ask to use "she/her" or "xyz/pqr" or whatever the hell you made up, and I am not close enough to you to care or need to care about your "gender" then really, please grow up.. the world doesn't revolve around your agenda or your identity.

Re: An Update to Our Community and an Apology

#113

Did something happen to this post on HN? I swear I read these comments like a day ago. And now they're all 1 or 7 hours old. I'm honestly having a bit of sanity questioning going on here.

See dang's reply here. TL;DR: you're not wrong.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21167710

Re: An Update to Our Community and an Apology

#114
post #20

When did the US start weaponizing pronouns? From a European standpoint this all seems extreme to the point of absurdity.

It's even harder to understand if your native language doesn't have neither gendered pronouns or gendered words.

Or, alternatively, if it has gendered pronouns and gendered words. Even without any trans* politics, things can get very complicated...

Re: An Update to Our Community and an Apology

#115

Did something happen to this post on HN? I swear I read these comments like a day ago. And now they're all 1 or 7 hours old. I'm honestly having a bit of sanity questioning going on here.

I'm using an extension [0] to highlight new comments, and the 7 hour old ones are all showing up as if I had already read them (which I also feel like I have).

[0] https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/hacker-news-enhanc... - with some local edits that shouldn't be relevent)

Re: An Update to Our Community and an Apology

#116
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know the details of the stackexchange case linked above. But, in general, it doesn't seem that complicated to me. The language you are using -- "weaponized pronouns" -- is pretty distorted. If one is aware of how someone prefers to be called and the preference is completely reasonable (such as a trans individual preferring their transitioned pronoun), then one is simply being an asshole by refusing. Not only…

Why would someone, care at that others refer to them (sorry I’m talking about a hypothetical person so I don’t know preferred pronoun) by name or gender neutral? If you know that I prefer to be addresses “their royal highness”(I do btw), does that make it rude of you to refer to me by name or as OP? I get calling someone who prefers he, she is insulting. But that’s not what the supposed crime was here. It was a moder…

You can’t refuse to use someone’s preferred pronoun just because you want to. If someone wants to be called he, using them is insulting and demeaning. You would be literally not accepting how he is. Obviously this is not the case in generic writing. But I don’t think that is how 2 people want to communicate.

Re: An Update to Our Community and an Apology

#117
post #113

Did something happen to this post on HN? I swear I read these comments like a day ago. And now they're all 1 or 7 hours old. I'm honestly having a bit of sanity questioning going on here.

See dang's reply here. TL;DR: you're not wrong. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21167710

Thank you! Didn't see that among all the comments.

Re: An Update to Our Community and an Apology

#118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curious why you would remove moderator status from Monica? From my understanding it appears that she was demoted for merely posing relevant questions. As I don't believe SE has even made any specific claims backing up their decision, I'm curious as to why you suggest this is the correct decision to make.

To send the message to other users and moderators that such discussions are unwelcome. SE has to balance between the need to expand into topics like judaism.stackexchange.com and islam.stackechange.com while remaining a q&a business, not a flamebait-generator business.

[deleted]

Re: An Update to Our Community and an Apology

#119

The title is misleading, this is not an apology. As a former operator of a (much smaller) community website, I understand the motives behind SE actions. They want to avoid discussions about gender-neutral pronouns and other contentious topics completely. There are only risks and no benefits for SE business in such discussions.They actually do not want discussions, just questions and answers. Jeff Atwood once wrote a…

Curious why you would remove moderator status from Monica? From my understanding it appears that she was demoted for merely posing relevant questions. As I don't believe SE has even made any specific claims backing up their decision, I'm curious as to why you suggest this is the correct decision to make.

I think they should remove many many more moderators, for no reason other than not doing so risks turning their site and resource into a Wikipedia 2.0, a place where cliquey moderators hang out to discuss their favorite flame bait topics all day, populate gigabytes of meta pages and lash out at unwitting, novel contributors. Wikipedia think a lack of a fancy SPA editor is the reason behind their editor demographics, and they couldn't be further from the truth.

Ideally start with just straight up removing half the current moderators. Pick at random.

Re: An Update to Our Community and an Apology

#120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, the solution you proposed is exactly what the moderators asked to do. Seems fair enough to me. They were told that not playing the pronoun game is the same as harassing whomever they are speaking to. The whole situation is ridiculous to me. How have we come to a point where not only do people think I care in the slightest who or what they have sex with (or don't, whatever), but they demand I call them by some wor…

Yes, mywittyname & effingwewt -- I obviously sympathize. It's hard to believe that we are destroying the planet, we are still killing each other over tribal-like issues, people don't have access to clean water and sanitation, various groups are disadvantaged based on where they are born, etc. -- and what pronoun to use for a third party on a technical forum is what we're spending our energy on. We need a new gender-n…

There are people committing suicide, being harassed and not being accepted as they are so using wrong gender is pretty fucked up thing to do especially because it is so easy to do right.
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