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An Update to Our Community and an Apology

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Re: An Update to Our Community and an Apology

#101

Post by chrisweekly »

phyzome wrote: post #88
chrisweekly wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's ironic that you used the homograph "resign" in both words' meanings -- re-sign (soft "ess", to sign again) and resign (hard "z" sound, to quit) -- in a comment about careful word choice. Did SE mods re-sign their posts, or quit (abandon moderator role)?

That's not ironic, because no one was actually confused.

I beg to differ. The relevant part of the top-level story boils down to "Someone was fired, and others resigned in protest / solidarity". Do you really believe that "no one" was confused? I think it's hard _not_ to read the wrong "resigned" there in this context.

More relevant to the subject matter, your confident assertion, speaking for everyone, belies a lack of empathy. Finally, I find it interesting that none of this would have been confusing or even ambiguous except that we're using written language to communicate.

Have a nice day!

Re: An Update to Our Community and an Apology

#102

Post by MikeGale »

I've observed that Stack Exchange is worse now than when it started and that the points award system moulds and warps respondents.

Now that it has gone overtly commercial they face issues which may not be solved.

What will programmers do to fix this, will they come up with an alternate architecture?

I guess programmers could take the questions they've answered. Reformulate their answers (and hopefully update them in many cases) and publish them in a distributed way, under their own control.

Re: An Update to Our Community and an Apology

#103

Post by ThrowawayR2 »

guardiangod wrote: post #9

Is that an apology? It reads more like "I am sorry that you are angry, but we did nothing wrong so suck it lololol" I don't know if the SO mod (Cellio) is in the wrong, but they did not give any explanation why Cellio was removed. I am unconvinced by this update.

If a corporation ever admits doing something wrong, it's admissible evidence in a lawsuit against them. That's why corporations never admit any wrongdoing regardless of how obvious it is that they did.

(And before anyone post the usual "corporations suck" rant, the exact same principle applies to individuals. Anybody who ever watched James Duane's "Never talk to the police" video knows why. Why would it be any different for a corporation?)

Re: An Update to Our Community and an Apology

#104

Post by DanBC »

chrisweekly wrote: post #101
phyzome wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not ironic, because no one was actually confused.

I beg to differ. The relevant part of the top-level story boils down to "Someone was fired, and others resigned in protest / solidarity". Do you really believe that "no one" was confused? I think it's hard _not_ to read the wrong "resigned" there in this context. More relevant to the subject matter, your confident assertion, speaking for everyone, belies a lack of empathy. Finally, I find it interesting that none of…

I'm a bit confused by your post.

What did you think the moderators signed? What did you think they had re-signed?

Re: An Update to Our Community and an Apology

#105

Post by dr_dshiv »

aeorgnoieang wrote: post #65
nabdab wrote: post #20

When did the US start weaponizing pronouns? From a European standpoint this all seems extreme to the point of absurdity.

I'm sure it'll show up on your shores soon enough.

As an American in Europe, I honestly think this is uniquely American.

Re: An Update to Our Community and an Apology

#107

Post by qzxzxzxq »

nabdab wrote: post #82
dwaltrip wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know the details of the stackexchange case linked above. But, in general, it doesn't seem that complicated to me. The language you are using -- "weaponized pronouns" -- is pretty distorted. If one is aware of how someone prefers to be called and the preference is completely reasonable (such as a trans individual preferring their transitioned pronoun), then one is simply being an asshole by refusing. Not only…

Why would someone, care at that others refer to them (sorry I’m talking about a hypothetical person so I don’t know preferred pronoun) by name or gender neutral? If you know that I prefer to be addresses “their royal highness”(I do btw), does that make it rude of you to refer to me by name or as OP? I get calling someone who prefers he, she is insulting. But that’s not what the supposed crime was here. It was a moder…

The Kim family, hailing from North Korea, cares very much how others refer to them. Fail to call the current boss "Great Leader", and you'll find yourself, and possibly your family, a social pariah, sent to the work camps for reeducation. That is the only other instance of policing third party speech that I am aware of.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korean_cult_of_personali...

Re: An Update to Our Community and an Apology

#108

Post by braindeath »

DanBC wrote: post #35
chii wrote: post #32

is there a summary of events that occurred? There's lots of confusing accounts and it's impossible to piece together the facts.

It's a bit confusing because a mod was removed, and a bunch of other mods resigned in support, and then it came out that she'd been removed for refusing to use people's preferred pronouns. Stack Exchange is perceived by many people to be unwelcoming. There has been persistent concern that SE is even more unwelcoming to people with protected characteristics. SE have made considerable effort to fix this. Recently they'…

Perhaps I just don't want to fucking be bothered with a gender label and will use the perfectly acceptable gender-neutral pronoun. God tells me that this is a reasonable thing to do.

Somebody recently referred me to this nonsense: https://www.mypronouns.org/how

It's funny that this pronoun debate in the US is so anglocentric, too. Just shows the level of critical thinking these agenda pushers really have. Why? Why is it only the 3rd person pronouns that are special. Why are 1st and 2nd person "as-is"?

Re: An Update to Our Community and an Apology

#109

Post by Faark »

pariahHN wrote: post #89
xenocyon wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saying that most people don't agree with extreme positions is a bit of a tautology, since positions are defined as "extreme" if few people agree with them. There is therefore nothing universal or fundamentally meaningful about this label, and the same position (e.g. support of interracial marriage) may be considered a perfectly normal or a radically extremist position depending on the time and place.

Eh, in some instances you can define extremeness relative to alternatives, not number of believers. Execution as a punishment is more extreme than a fine regardless of how many people favor execution over fines. I would argue that generally a position being extreme results in fewer believers, not that fewer believers results in a position being extreme.

Reminds me of a concept called Overton window [0]. Just want to mention this describes how people behave, as in a human weakness. Not how people should behave to form optimal opinions / societies.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window

Re: An Update to Our Community and an Apology

#110

Post by strenholme »

One way to handle these kinds of contentious moderator debates is with freedom. Since Stackoverflow/Stackexchange does not open source their code, there are a number of Free Software clones which handle questions and answers Stackexchange style.

I will link to just one: https://github.com/ASKBOT/askbot-devel

Point being, there is nothing stopping someone from hosting this code and making their own Q&A board with their own moderation policies.

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