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Walkability a key factor determining upward mobility of a city's residents

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Re: Walkability a key factor determining upward mobility of a city's residents

#51

Post by ghaff »

yalogin wrote: post #50

Isn’t a city walkable by definition? I am comparing it to a suburb obviously. It feels like they have to define what walkability is first. If there is any correlation it will not be on the overall score but on some aspects that make up the score.

>Isn’t a city walkable by definition?

Not really. Even if you can walk to a restaurant from a company or your apartment/condo/house, if you still have to routinely take cars and/or public transit to do most things, that city isn't very walkable.

A lot of cities have specific areas that are fairly walkable but those areas may be pretty small and/or not particularly mixed use--so you still need to mostly drive.

Here's Redfin's classification scheme: https://www.redfin.com/how-walk-score-works

Re: Walkability a key factor determining upward mobility of a city's residents

#52

Post by iguy »

ghaff wrote: post #45
iguy wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, but doesn't this explain what they see just fine? The walkable parts of cities are the gentrifying cores, which are now expensive, but 30 years ago were in deep decline. Were poor, now rich, call that upward mobility to sell the paper?

Other than that they're largely different groups of people. It's mostly young professionals displacing blue collar workers and racial minorities. With some exceptions like Manhattan, graduates of 20 to 30 years ago didn't live in city cores or often even commute to them. In my grad school class--the New Yorkers aside--almost no one I knew moved into a city. They were all out in the suburbs, which is where most of the…

Yea, I know. And since they track people by tax returns it can't literally be the rich newcomers who are the today datapoint. But I'm still pretty dubious about the causality they claim.

Re: Walkability a key factor determining upward mobility of a city's residents

#53

Post by iguy »

mwfunk wrote: post #39
baron816 wrote: post #5

Seems spurious. Could be talented people move to cities with high earning potential—which happen to be walkable. Do the authors control for that?

Agreed. The most desirable and expensive neighborhoods tend to be the most walkable ones. It would make sense that the people who live in those neighborhoods tend to be more financially successful. It's as if a study came out that showed that, according to their exhaustive statistical analysis, people that drove Mercedes tended to be wealthier than people who drove Chevys. Then they concluded that the key to upward m…

It's supposed to be mobility, and I think tracking individuals through their tax returns. (This magic data which only Chetty & co have access to.) So I don't think the Mercedes example works.

But I agree that it's very unlikely to be that being able to walk places makes you succeed. Could even be something as simple as enough people owning a few flats in their neighbourhood, which suddenly became super-valuable when lots of google employees showed up. That would look a lot like income mobility.

Re: Walkability a key factor determining upward mobility of a city's residents

#54

Post by truebosko »

Yet it seems common in American cities that the best schools for children are in the suburbs, where walkability is graded lower.

Public schools seem to be regaining credibility as the upper-middle class flood back into cities, but have they caught up? Unsure.

Re: Walkability a key factor determining upward mobility of a city's residents

#55

Post by adrianmonk »

journalctl wrote: post #37
adrianmonk wrote: post #25

Walkability goes hand-in-hand with density. Density tends to occur close-in as a consequence of land values being higher. Therefore, there is a natural association between high property values and walkability. I hope the paper takes this into account. It could just be that people with more money live in more desirable locations, which end up being more walkable too.

Dense cities being expensive is relatively recent in the United States. It follows decades of restrictive zoning and changes at the federal level to make housing more of an investment. Also, don’t forget that for most of history, you could only travel on foot, by horse (or similar), or by boat. “Walkability” is a retronym; for the longest time it was the only way most people got around. Edit: Downvotes? Stay classy,…

I agree some of the reasons for density are artificial. Not all of them, because the more desirable an area is, the more infill makes sense. (You see vacant lots in rundown areas, not thriving ones.)

But yes, that's a real issue, and it's a disastrously bad policy if you care about the environment (because density reduces transportation energy use).

However, I think the artificial restriction only magnifies the effect here. Lots of people would like to live in a dense, walkable area. If those policies weren't in effect, most people who wanted to could. But since they are, density is for those who can afford it.

Re: Walkability a key factor determining upward mobility of a city's residents

#56

Post by wil421 »

amiga_500 wrote: post #47
wil421 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is 100% mandatory to file taxes if you make over $12k and over $13.5k if you’re over 65 and file single. Doesn’t matter if it’s from a job, investment, or unemployment.

I can imagine Americans living abroad will be shaking their fist at the parent poster. They have to pay taxes in the USA even when working abroad, never mind in the USA!

Sigh, this always comes up and I’ve never met a single person who actually had to pay taxes. My brother in law was out of the country for a decade and a few other friends lived in Europe and never paid.

Has anyone on HN paid US taxes living abroad?

Re: Walkability a key factor determining upward mobility of a city's residents

#57

Post by _delirium »

wil421 wrote: post #56
amiga_500 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can imagine Americans living abroad will be shaking their fist at the parent poster. They have to pay taxes in the USA even when working abroad, never mind in the USA!

Sigh, this always comes up and I’ve never met a single person who actually had to pay taxes. My brother in law was out of the country for a decade and a few other friends lived in Europe and never paid. Has anyone on HN paid US taxes living abroad?

You do still have to file a tax return, which can be a bit complicated if you have foreign income. But if you work in Europe, you're right that you likely won't have to pay any actual US taxes. You can take the European tax paid as a foreign tax credit against the US taxes, and that almost always zeroes it out, since European countries mostly have higher tax rates. That was the case for me, anyway.

You will have to pay some tax if you work in a country whose tax rates (for your bracket) are lower than US federal tax rates. That can be the case for Americans working in places like Hong Kong or the Bahamas.

Re: Walkability a key factor determining upward mobility of a city's residents

#58

Post by [deleted] »

truebosko wrote: post #54

Yet it seems common in American cities that the best schools for children are in the suburbs, where walkability is graded lower. Public schools seem to be regaining credibility as the upper-middle class flood back into cities, but have they caught up? Unsure.

[deleted]

Re: Walkability a key factor determining upward mobility of a city's residents

#59

Post by criddell »

truebosko wrote: post #54

Yet it seems common in American cities that the best schools for children are in the suburbs, where walkability is graded lower. Public schools seem to be regaining credibility as the upper-middle class flood back into cities, but have they caught up? Unsure.

I was wondering the same thing. How can they isolate walkability rather than cultural factors or factors related to the public school system of a city?
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