Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The GM strike is really about the switch to electric cars

marketwatch.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 293 posts

Re: The GM strike is really about the switch to electric cars

#11

Post by ericmay »

As a society we need to make sure we are taking care of people when their industry is destroyed. The whole “learn 2 code” thing that was directed toward coal workers was exactly the wrong thing to do. If we want those coal plants to shut down we should have offered to pay off the workers until they reached retirement age. If you “take away” someone’s job for the sake of progress, then you’ll make enemies of progress and leave people behind and cause generations of anything ranging from hatred to apathy to loathing.

Here in this case I don’t think it’s quite the same, but this sort of thing is NOT going to go away, and we need to figure it out. Just retraining of “find another job” isn’t good enough.

Re: The GM strike is really about the switch to electric cars

#12

Post by ianai »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #6
blunte wrote: post #4

One person’s right to keep a job is not greater than humanity’s right to reasonable progress. It’s cases like these that give unions a bad name.

When shipping firms moved to shipping containers mid 20th century, the productivity gains were split between corporations and the union to buy out longshoreman so there was a graceful transition out for these folks who were no longer needed. (Check out the book “The Box: How the Shipping Container Made the World Smaller and the World Economy Bigger - Second Edition”, which goes into some detail about this) It’s not h…

That would be labeled socialism. Seemingly all it takes to defeat a proposal in US politics.

Re: The GM strike is really about the switch to electric cars

#13

Post by pkaye »

I was watching this Youtube video of Audi electric motor production. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zttC2x9nMEw Pretty crazy how much of the motor construction can be automated. There is just no way around it. Union or not, a lot of jobs will disappear. If GM and Ford don't do it then one of the hundred electric car companies around the world will progress in that direction.

Re: The GM strike is really about the switch to electric cars

#14

Post by dang »

ecf wrote: post #3

Just fire them. It’s painfully obvious they’re attempting to hold back progress that would be beneficial for the entire world.

Please don't post unsubstantive comments or shallow dismissals here.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: The GM strike is really about the switch to electric cars

#15

Post by toomuchtodo »

ianai wrote: post #12
toomuchtodo wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When shipping firms moved to shipping containers mid 20th century, the productivity gains were split between corporations and the union to buy out longshoreman so there was a graceful transition out for these folks who were no longer needed. (Check out the book “The Box: How the Shipping Container Made the World Smaller and the World Economy Bigger - Second Edition”, which goes into some detail about this) It’s not h…

That would be labeled socialism. Seemingly all it takes to defeat a proposal in US politics.

I assume more success will be had as suffering reaches a tipping point. Change happens slowly, and then all of a sudden. I’d just like people to be able to avoid the interim suffering, but empathy seems to be in short supply compared to capital.

Transitioning to electric mobility is necessary, but if you’re treating workers inhumanly (possibly contributing to deaths of despair in middle America), what is the point of progress? We can treat citizens humanely and deliver on the progress we desperately need, I have no doubt about this.

Re: The GM strike is really about the switch to electric cars

#16

Post by yardie »

ianai wrote: post #12
toomuchtodo wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When shipping firms moved to shipping containers mid 20th century, the productivity gains were split between corporations and the union to buy out longshoreman so there was a graceful transition out for these folks who were no longer needed. (Check out the book “The Box: How the Shipping Container Made the World Smaller and the World Economy Bigger - Second Edition”, which goes into some detail about this) It’s not h…

That would be labeled socialism. Seemingly all it takes to defeat a proposal in US politics.

The word socialism has lost the sting. Considering one of the top presidential candidates has been running in the platform for decades. And the DSA has made large gains in liberal cities.

Simply calling something socialism isn’t the scarlet letter it used to be.

Re: The GM strike is really about the switch to electric cars

#18

Post by mfer »

ericmay wrote: post #11

As a society we need to make sure we are taking care of people when their industry is destroyed. The whole “learn 2 code” thing that was directed toward coal workers was exactly the wrong thing to do. If we want those coal plants to shut down we should have offered to pay off the workers until they reached retirement age. If you “take away” someone’s job for the sake of progress, then you’ll make enemies of progress…

If you take away people’s ability to provide for themselves and their families you’re bound to make enemies and that’s due to hurting people. It says a lot about what one calls progress

I would suggest helping those people move on to something else that enables them to care for their families. It’ll make change far more palatable and is better for people

Re: The GM strike is really about the switch to electric cars

#19

Post by prepend »

ericmay wrote: post #11

As a society we need to make sure we are taking care of people when their industry is destroyed. The whole “learn 2 code” thing that was directed toward coal workers was exactly the wrong thing to do. If we want those coal plants to shut down we should have offered to pay off the workers until they reached retirement age. If you “take away” someone’s job for the sake of progress, then you’ll make enemies of progress…

I think the way we take care of people is by providing many diverse training paths and transparency. Not just college age programs but lifelong learning where it’s possible to learn to code or weld or teach or whatever. Our libraries and community colleges should include more low cost certification and structured learning programs where people can explore interests.

I think this is very different from the high cost 4-year undergrad or masters programs that are expensive and take a lot of time. A UAW worker will have a hard time, I think, getting a degree but should have an easy time taking a few 1-4 week programs at night or from home to pick up useful skills.

I’m not sure what other program will really work unless UBI gets here real soon (I don’t think it will). Programs where GM has to pay workers who don’t work will just kill GM. I suppose it will be ok for a few years, but once GM dies then no one will be able to pay.

Re: The GM strike is really about the switch to electric cars

#20

Post by LeoPanthera »

dang wrote: post #14
ecf wrote: post #3

Just fire them. It’s painfully obvious they’re attempting to hold back progress that would be beneficial for the entire world.

Please don't post unsubstantive comments or shallow dismissals here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

I'm usually on board with HN moderation but I have to disagree here.

They're literally refusing to do their jobs, for a reason analogous to farriers striking because the automobile is taking away their jobs because no-one needs horseshoes anymore.

Post reply on HN