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Pricing niche products

kevinlynagh.com

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Re: Pricing niche products

#281

Post by phaus »

sk5t wrote: post #260
phaus wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its more comparable than you think. Those artisan cables with fancy bnc connectors and pretty colors are also available for keyboards. Some are like $40-50 but some are into the hundreds. They are sold for aesthetic reasons. I myself have some decent quality, but still pretty average cables because I think my white plastic cables look good with my white plastic $600 keyboard. My cables were probably $10-12 from amazo…

I think it really isn't comparable, because the audiophiles--certain of them anyway--are totally mired in defending that their expensive aesthetic changes make a difference. They'll even try to wrap themselves in science and argue that "hospital grade" electrical outlets, fancy plugs, or whatever, make a discernible difference in the "air" or "pace" of the music. Nevermind that these are mostly old guys with tin ears…

we were only talking about spending a hundred or so for aesthetic and perceptible quality reasons, not advocating $2000 cables for objective reasons of sound quality.

Re: Pricing niche products

#282

Post by mamurphy »

Why was the title shortened on HN to remove reference to mechanical keyboards? I think the subject matter is both relevant and helped generate interest in the thread. Also, most of the comments are about mechanical keyboards at this point.

Re: Pricing niche products

#283

Post by lewisflude »

antoinealb wrote: post #147
james-mcelwain wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The key difference being audiophiles often fail A/B tests comparing audio quality. You would definitely notice how nice an expensive mechanical keyboard feels. Whether you think that is worth luxury pricing is another story, but the quality is at least more immediately appreciable.

I would be interested in seeing an AB test of keyboard enthusiast between say a 200$ keyboard and one that is 5x as expensive. Audiophiles also claimed that they would definitely notice a difference.

The main factors that affect keyboard feel are

1. Switches (can be lubed or spring swapped to customise feel) 2. Plate (holds switches together, can be aluminium, carbon fiber, brass, polycarbonate and more) 3. Case (heavily affects acoustics) 4. Foam (put in case to affect acoustics)

Re: Pricing niche products

#284

Post by eddieh »

This doesn't surprise me at all. Guitars are sold for thousands of dollars. I've been making the argument for years that someone should create a bespoke keyboard business. I don't want to start that business though, I want to be a customer. I spend all day working on a computer, why shouldn't I be as comfortable and efficient as possible with a custom designed and professionally built keyboard?

In my scenario the possible keyboards go well beyond picking mechanical switches and caps. Because I'm in the minority that actually likes the low travel and stable feel of the MacBook Pro keyboards, but the layout sucks and they don't make a standalone version. Essentially I want a modern keyboard with Meta, Super, Hyper in additional to Control, Option, and Command. And I want the keys moved too. I don't care if nobody else in the world would want this keyboard—the only thing that matters is that I want it. And I'd pay $1,000 - $3,000, maybe more for it.

Re: Pricing niche products

#285

Post by phaus »

cr0sh wrote: post #256
phaus wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people still prefer blues, I might be slightly exaggerating. Not everyone wants a key as hard to press as a box jade but I love them. When they did a survey of /r/mechanicalkeyboards the most common favorite is Brown, Blue was up there too. /r/mechanicalkeyboards and /r/mechmarket area great place to go to further investigate the hobby. Be warned I can't be held responsible for anyone's wallet.

Are there any switches that come close to the feel and sound of buckling spring (aka Model M) switches? I haven't been able to find anything like that; even the stiffest and clickiest and tactilest cherry key switches I've played with don't come close to the feel. I'm not sure where Unicomp gets theirs - likely make them in-house would be my guess. I currently own two original Model M keyboards, and one Unicomp Class…

I think there may be modern buckling spring key switches.

Most modern mechanical switches have their own sound. MX Blues and knockoffs sound like MX Blues, the Box Jades I described have a really really nice clicky noise and IMO the best tactile clicking feeling. You could try them next to a buckling spring keyboard and you may or may not like the buckling spring feeling and sound better.

I've used both vintage buckling springs and box jades and I like Box Jades better.

They sell switch testers with lots of different switches on them, if you want something really obscure like a modern buckling spring you might have to buy a few of the switches separately, but then you could test them alongside the others.

Re: Pricing niche products

#286

Post by smolder »

CommieBobDole wrote: post #114

These things have become so esoteric and expensive because the mechanical keyboard hobby is undergoing a more intense version of what happens to most hobbies/pastimes; the purpose of the hobby has transitioned from primarily "making/using the thing" to "obtaining and displaying ever more extreme versions of the thing to impress other people who know about the thing". I feel like this is an outgrowth of the basic huma…

What's most absurd is the difference between $90 and $1000 is trivial. If that money went into engineering, every key would be using a hall effect sensor and pneumatic springs, machined to high precision, NOT just more of the same mechanical switches. They are spending money on status and sometimes fancy raw materials, but not any substantive engineering effort for a better keyboard.

Re: Pricing niche products

#287

Post by notme77 »

phaus wrote: post #222
tomc1985 wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your parent comments need lambasting too, computer-nerdity isn't supposed to be this super bougie luxury hobby

I'm OK with people making fun of my nerd hobby. I have also spent $800 on a 100 year-old fountain pen so I can do some spencerian copperplate calligraphy. I got functional utility out of that purchase, but most of fountain pen collecting is about nerds spending craploads of money on things that look nice. Perhaps people shouldn't have started paying nerds a good amount of money to do super nerdy things. I don't know…

>Perhaps people shouldn't have started paying nerds a good amount of money to do super nerdy things.

I've got discount pitchforks. Get your pitchforks. 3 for $5.

Re: Pricing niche products

#288

Post by joyjoyjoy »

goldenchrome wrote: post #280
joyjoyjoy wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"you're not spending $1600 on a keyboard to improve your" Well, it is $1600 for a keyboard that you are using 8h a day for the next five years vs a $5 Latte that you are enjoying the next 4 minutes. You do the math.

The difference here being that a decent latte costs about $5 but a decent keyboard costs maybe $50.

The difference being made that people are willing to spend big on short term things but are stingy on things that they use a lot. Be it a keyboard, shoes, bed sheets or whatever.

I just ordered a "new" keyboard. IBM Model M, space saving version. With below USD 200 a steal!

Re: Pricing niche products

#290

Post by wubblebubble »

smolder wrote: post #286
CommieBobDole wrote: post #114

These things have become so esoteric and expensive because the mechanical keyboard hobby is undergoing a more intense version of what happens to most hobbies/pastimes; the purpose of the hobby has transitioned from primarily "making/using the thing" to "obtaining and displaying ever more extreme versions of the thing to impress other people who know about the thing". I feel like this is an outgrowth of the basic huma…

What's most absurd is the difference between $90 and $1000 is trivial. If that money went into engineering, every key would be using a hall effect sensor and pneumatic springs, machined to high precision, NOT just more of the same mechanical switches. They are spending money on status and sometimes fancy raw materials, but not any substantive engineering effort for a better keyboard.

I think it might actually be useful (for games and whatnot) to have analog input on some keys. i'm surprised such a thing doesn't really exist yet.

or even some sort of way to adjust the elastic constant of the key (i guess in a pneumatic spring you could just change the pressure)

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