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Cars Are Death Machines. Self-Driving Tech Won’t Change That

nytimes.com

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Re: Cars Are Death Machines. Self-Driving Tech Won’t Change That

#31

Post by ehvatum »

Ajedi32 wrote: post #12

The title of this article is unsupported by its contents. The only mention of self-driving cars in the article outside of the title is in this paragraph: > There are many who say that autonomous or smart cars will solve this. So far, I’m unpersuaded. Since 2014, over $80 billion dollars has been spent on “smart” or connected cars (more on these in a minute) and autonomous vehicles, arguably to make cars safer. But in…

A vacuous flaunting of luxury opinions diametrically opposed to personal freedom, that serve to elevate their proponent who, of course, would never consider following their own advice? In the NYT? Surely not.

Re: Cars Are Death Machines. Self-Driving Tech Won’t Change That

#32

Post by afarrell »

I wish there were realistic car-driving simulators.

Arcade games don’t handle like a car and they don’t require 360 spatial awareness like a car. If you could walk into a mall, swipe your card, and rent time in a realistic driving sim, then:

* 14-year-olds could practice before they got their learner permits.

* People moving north could practice driving on black ice and performing the right maneuvers.

* Self-driving car companies could gather anonymized data about how real drivers act.

* Insurance companies could offer discounts to people who could pass a cheaply-administered test every 5 years.

* Immersive games could be written based on trying to rapidly deliver taxi passengers around a city, or trying to escape police in a stolen auto.

* People of all ages could regularly test their driving reflexes.

* People with anxiety could practice various scenarios in a low-stakes environment.

Re: Cars Are Death Machines. Self-Driving Tech Won’t Change That

#33

Post by WilliamEdward »

Alupis wrote: post #26
marble-drink wrote: post #19

Cars don't kill anywhere near as many people in Europe, though. The US is an outlier when it comes to first-world countries. Still, I would like it if the power was taken back from from cars on the road. Cars should be a third-class road user, below bicycles and pedestrians. My idea for improving driver quality is to do what pilots do. Before you are even allowed behind the wheel of a car you must have proven experie…

> Cars don't kill anywhere near as many people in Europe, though. The US is an outlier when it comes to first-world countries Do you have some data for this assertion? The US actually has a pretty low fatality rate per mile driven. Although, anything above zero isn't acceptable to some people... > It's insane that we let kids drive cars before they've even learnt how to use road. We don't, at least in the US. You hav…

> We don't, at least in the US. You have to go through "Driver's Training" first in order to get a Learner's Permit. This training teaches all the road laws, best practices, scenario training, and how things work. Then you get your permit and are allowed to practice only with a licensed driver in the passenger seat.

that's how it works in many places. OP was probably talking about letting people <18 years old drive.

Re: Cars Are Death Machines. Self-Driving Tech Won’t Change That

#34

Post by Konnstann »

marble-drink wrote: post #19

Cars don't kill anywhere near as many people in Europe, though. The US is an outlier when it comes to first-world countries. Still, I would like it if the power was taken back from from cars on the road. Cars should be a third-class road user, below bicycles and pedestrians. My idea for improving driver quality is to do what pilots do. Before you are even allowed behind the wheel of a car you must have proven experie…

Isn't that what learner's permits are? In my state, you need a minimum of I believe 40 hours of driving with an over-21 adult that they sign off on, then completing a driving class with an instructor, and over however many sessions they judge your driving, and after that you get your license. In my experience the student drivers were the ones staying strictly to the speed limit, always using indicators, etc. When I first started driving I was hyper-focused on not breaking the rules, paying attention to the road. The ones who are the worst are the people who think they know how to drive well, so they are on their phone or half-asleep while driving.

Re: Cars Are Death Machines. Self-Driving Tech Won’t Change That

#35

Post by ocdtrekkie »

Alupis wrote: post #8
xsmasher wrote: post #4

Not by itself; but if the high-speed crash rate drops to almost nothing we can make cars much lighter and lower; reverse the SUV arms-race that has made the streets more deadly than ever.

> if the high-speed crash rate drops to almost nothing The high-speed crash rate is almost nothing - statistically speaking. Most accidents are on city streets at relatively low speeds. What more, statistically speaking for number of miles driven, we already have a near-zero rate of fatalities. Can it be better? Sure, but it will never be entirely zero, even with full automation for all road vehicles. > reverse the S…

I have absolutely recommended someone drive a bigger vehicle because I've seen what a smaller one looks like in a crash. I would still make that recommendation today. (Brutal honesty: If I'm talking to someone about what car they're safer driving in, I am going to suggest what keeps them safer than what keeps everyone else around them safer.)

Re: Cars Are Death Machines. Self-Driving Tech Won’t Change That

#36

Post by JohnFen »

Alupis wrote: post #26
marble-drink wrote: post #19

Cars don't kill anywhere near as many people in Europe, though. The US is an outlier when it comes to first-world countries. Still, I would like it if the power was taken back from from cars on the road. Cars should be a third-class road user, below bicycles and pedestrians. My idea for improving driver quality is to do what pilots do. Before you are even allowed behind the wheel of a car you must have proven experie…

> Cars don't kill anywhere near as many people in Europe, though. The US is an outlier when it comes to first-world countries Do you have some data for this assertion? The US actually has a pretty low fatality rate per mile driven. Although, anything above zero isn't acceptable to some people... > It's insane that we let kids drive cars before they've even learnt how to use road. We don't, at least in the US. You hav…

> You have to go through "Driver's Training" first in order to get a Learner's Permit.

Not in my state. Here, there is no prerequisite to get your learner's permit. However, completing driver's ed is a high school graduation requirement.

Re: Cars Are Death Machines. Self-Driving Tech Won’t Change That

#37

Post by bproven »

refurb wrote: post #7

It seems somewhat silly to only talk about the negative aspects of cars. What about all the benefits? If you stop and think about it, cars are truly revolutionary. Even many low income people can buy a machine that will travel 50 miles (at 70 mph) on a gallon of liquid that costs $3. It not only allows individuals the freedom to travel, vehicles power a massive transportation network that brings food to our tables an…

I think the main problem is that cars can be a great last mile transport but a horribly scaling transport for common long distance travel (commuting to city cores, etc).

Re: Cars Are Death Machines. Self-Driving Tech Won’t Change That

#38

Post by anyfoo »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #10
yelloweyes wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

boggles my mind that people who know the first thing about software can actually think that self driving cars are viable technology

Software technology isn’t static, most of us are only arguing about when, not if.

And I'd argue that "when" is very, very far away. Unless you remove human drivers, and significantly change the infrastructure for self-driving cars, but at some point you are not so far from (existing) self-conducted trains, then.

Re: Cars Are Death Machines. Self-Driving Tech Won’t Change That

#39

Post by Alupis »

JohnFen wrote: post #36
Alupis wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Cars don't kill anywhere near as many people in Europe, though. The US is an outlier when it comes to first-world countries Do you have some data for this assertion? The US actually has a pretty low fatality rate per mile driven. Although, anything above zero isn't acceptable to some people... > It's insane that we let kids drive cars before they've even learnt how to use road. We don't, at least in the US. You hav…

> You have to go through "Driver's Training" first in order to get a Learner's Permit. Not in my state. Here, there is no prerequisite to get your learner's permit. However, completing driver's ed is a high school graduation requirement.

> Not in my state. Here, there is no prerequisite to get your learner's permit.

And

> However, completing driver's ed is a high school graduation requirement.

Is the same thing.

Just your state decided to standardize what was taught, instead of letting private companies also offer it. For what it's worth, in California we have both.

Re: Cars Are Death Machines. Self-Driving Tech Won’t Change That

#40

Post by mirimir »

AtlasBarfed wrote: post #5

Paywall: is this perfect being the enemy of good? Planes, trains, bicycles, people die on all of them. Would she argue airline autopilot was a bad thing? Well, paywall so who knows. Self-driving tech with convergent evolution will absolutely reduce deaths. Tesla claims a statistical advantage with their speciously tested technology.

NY Times paywall is wimpy. In Firefox, there's no problem if you hit reader view as soon as the icon appears.
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