Pricing niche products • Hacker News Board

Re: Pricing niche products

#201

Post by School-Cotton » Fri, Oct 04, 2019, 5:05 PM UTC

criley2 wrote: post #190

dsabanin wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did it ever occur to you that people buy Apple stuff because it’s just good/better?

Did it ever occur to you that people buy mechanical keyboards because it's just good/better? (And P.S. subjective ideas of good/better are what they are, but no fair objective analysis of price and value would agree with you. A thousand dollar phone is a pure status symbol and owning it has nothing to do with a rational attempt to achieve value per dollar)

I own a $1000 phone and avoid as much as possible other people in public seeing it, because I don't want it to get stolen and I think being recognized for owning a "status symbol" is awkward.

Is it really so hard to believe that some people buy the most expensive iPhone simply because it's the best phone available on the market?

Re: Pricing niche products

#202

Post by the_cat_kittles » Fri, Oct 04, 2019, 5:05 PM UTC

tomc1985 wrote: post #198

CommieBobDole wrote: post #114

These things have become so esoteric and expensive because the mechanical keyboard hobby is undergoing a more intense version of what happens to most hobbies/pastimes; the purpose of the hobby has transitioned from primarily "making/using the thing" to "obtaining and displaying ever more extreme versions of the thing to impress other people who know about the thing". I feel like this is an outgrowth of the basic huma…

I agree, because for all the money and chatter about them most of the companies providing them are making carbon copies of each other with little real innovation -- they're always the same square shape and its always about fancy keyswitches, RGB, and little else. Computer-building has turned into this, at least if r/pcmasterrace is any indication. It's positively infuriating -- 99% of people's posts are bragging/vali…

lol. why does it bother you? its not ok for these people to have fun?

Re: Pricing niche products

#203

Post by SuperPaintMan » Fri, Oct 04, 2019, 5:05 PM UTC

cmroanirgo wrote: post #180

SuperPaintMan wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very much signalling, you want something that sets you apart from other users and if that means custom CNC'd cases, with harvested switches that have been lubed using the finest tears mounted on a custom plate. So you have something to ogle and show off to the others. And that's before we get into the scarcity territory that sees secondhand TGR Alices going for over 5K. It's weird, a good chunk of people buy my Georg…

A side tracking question: How do you know they're not using them? (I'm a telemetry avoider)

Funny you should ask that! It's mostly because I'm hanging out it a ton of keyboard related Discord servers and the topic comes up naturally (downside of designing the things, your life revolves around it). Usually I'll post a few new images or screengrabs from KiCad and get a few comments along the line of 'someday I'll learn how to use mine!'. I mean there's students and people using them daily, but those comments just get me thinking.

A big issue moving to a new layout is learning/adapting to it. Georgi uses a chording approach [1] and is a compactified version of Gergos layout [2]. That makes it harder to learn.

Thankfully Gergos layout is meant for programming/shelling around and is fairly traditional. All I know is that my RSI flares a ton less then it used to! In theory, this applies to Georgi as well.

[1] http://docs.gboards.ca/Unboxing-Georgi

[2] https://qmk.fm/keyboards/gergo/keymap.png

Re: Pricing niche products

#204

Post by phaus » Fri, Oct 04, 2019, 5:13 PM UTC

tomc1985 wrote: post #198

CommieBobDole wrote: post #114

These things have become so esoteric and expensive because the mechanical keyboard hobby is undergoing a more intense version of what happens to most hobbies/pastimes; the purpose of the hobby has transitioned from primarily "making/using the thing" to "obtaining and displaying ever more extreme versions of the thing to impress other people who know about the thing". I feel like this is an outgrowth of the basic huma…

I agree, because for all the money and chatter about them most of the companies providing them are making carbon copies of each other with little real innovation -- they're always the same square shape and its always about fancy keyswitches, RGB, and little else. Computer-building has turned into this, at least if r/pcmasterrace is any indication. It's positively infuriating -- 99% of people's posts are bragging/vali…

PC master race is clearly intended to be a tongue-in-cheek circle-jerk about the rivalry between PC gaming and consoles, its not intended to be taken seriously. 90% of the people in that sub have consoles.

Re: Pricing niche products

#205

Post by gnicholasgreen » Fri, Oct 04, 2019, 5:14 PM UTC

tomc1985 wrote: post #198

CommieBobDole wrote: post #114

These things have become so esoteric and expensive because the mechanical keyboard hobby is undergoing a more intense version of what happens to most hobbies/pastimes; the purpose of the hobby has transitioned from primarily "making/using the thing" to "obtaining and displaying ever more extreme versions of the thing to impress other people who know about the thing". I feel like this is an outgrowth of the basic huma…

I agree, because for all the money and chatter about them most of the companies providing them are making carbon copies of each other with little real innovation -- they're always the same square shape and its always about fancy keyswitches, RGB, and little else. Computer-building has turned into this, at least if r/pcmasterrace is any indication. It's positively infuriating -- 99% of people's posts are bragging/vali…

> they're always the same square shape and its always about fancy keyswitches, RGB, and little else.

This is where I disagree. I had severe hand and arm tendon pain for years, and finally dove into ergonomic mechanical keyboard options. It solved my issues, and I no longer feel the pain after typing all day.

I easily spend $350+ for a keyboard, and it's a very practical, life-changing decision, which involves a non-rectangular, non-RGB keyboard.

For reference: https://ergodox-ez.com/

Re: Pricing niche products

#206

Post by phaus » Fri, Oct 04, 2019, 5:14 PM UTC

dsabanin wrote: post #182

criley2 wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's funny how on hacker news apparently buying a fancy keyboard for your home where no one can see it is "signalling", but if you point out that wearing Apple watch, holding iPhone, and displaying those ear buds is also signalling/branding/status symboling, I am generally very aggressively downvoted. I'd say buying a mechanical keyboard with RGB lights and nice switches is probably 100X less signalling (several orde…

Did it ever occur to you that people buy Apple stuff because it’s just good/better?

It did until 2017 when I traded my 2015 MBP for a new one.

If you liked your MBP good for you. I'm not sure why me not liking mine makes you mad.

Re: Pricing niche products

#207

Post by CarVac » Fri, Oct 04, 2019, 5:18 PM UTC

SuperPaintMan wrote: post #172

CarVac wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is you get to choose either a better layout or better keycaps. My Mitosis has a really great layout but I paid more for non-legended caps so I could get the profile I wanted. Other people with unusual ergo layouts go with non-sculpted profiles like DSA or SA R3 which I cannot stand. Or you can go ANSI and get wonderful profiles like MT3 and DSS. The compromise is to go with a standardized ergo layout like…

>The problem is you get to choose either a better layout or better keycaps. Very much this. I'm very fond of Kailh Chocs and use them in many of my designs [1], while an excellent switch you have exactly two colour options White Blanks and Black Blanks. If that wasn't bad enough they're different sizes then regular MX so if you don't have a board _specfically_ designed for them you end up with gaps in the caps. It su…

Neat! I actually got to lay hands on a Georgi yesterday because one of my online friends I met up with (for non-keyboard-purposes) brought one. Very solid-feeling.

Re: Pricing niche products

#208

Post by wl » Fri, Oct 04, 2019, 5:18 PM UTC

criley2 wrote: post #189

SuperPaintMan wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry I wasn't clear! What I'm getting at is when you're flexing in Discord/GeekHack/Reddit using a Alice is a very strong signal. Just using it as your personal keyboard in normal day-to-day settings isn't nearly the same. Because you're not actively showing it off.

I would disagree strongly, and I would go so far as to claim that signalling isn't done for the in-group, it's done for the out group. Apple users don't wear white ear buds to signal to one another, they do it exclusively to signal to people who don't have it that the apple user can afford product and symbol greatly in excess of the person. Same with mechanical keyboards. The signal there is to people using shitty 20…

> Same with mechanical keyboards. The signal there is to people using shitty 20$ dell membrane boards, and who see those beautiful machined aluminum boards and custom caps and feel jealous. The signal is about demonstrating you have more than someone else.

I think the average $20 membrane keyboard user is looking at these things and thinking, hey, that looks funny, assuming they notice them at all. Most people don't know that it's possible to spend $100, let alone $400 on a set of keycaps.

Re: Pricing niche products

#209

Post by tomc1985 » Fri, Oct 04, 2019, 5:19 PM UTC

phjesusthatguy3 wrote: post #105

lewisflude wrote: post #12

I'm in the $600+ club too (Kepler that has a full brass bottom weight 6+kg, Kepler 65 with it's forged carbon top etc.) It's a really strange hobby. A bunch of people who really value and love keyboards, the thing that sits between a human and a computer, a tool that many (developers, writers, gamers) use every day for hours on end. Similar to how someone might invest in a nice knife if they love cooking, luxury-pric…

HN lambasts audiophiles every time stupid expensive audio gear comes up, yet here we are paying $hundreds for gimmick keyboard stuff. SF developers making $100k or two a year just aren't in the same money league of the audiophiles spending $thousands on speaker wire. EDIT: I'm not mad at any of the above groups I've mentioned; everybody gets their kicks from something, as well they should. I'm just mentioning what I…

Your parent comments need lambasting too, computer-nerdity isn't supposed to be this super bougie luxury hobby

Re: Pricing niche products

#210

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Oct 04, 2019, 5:19 PM UTC

SuperPaintMan wrote: post #158

CommieBobDole wrote: post #114

These things have become so esoteric and expensive because the mechanical keyboard hobby is undergoing a more intense version of what happens to most hobbies/pastimes; the purpose of the hobby has transitioned from primarily "making/using the thing" to "obtaining and displaying ever more extreme versions of the thing to impress other people who know about the thing". I feel like this is an outgrowth of the basic huma…

Very much signalling, you want something that sets you apart from other users and if that means custom CNC'd cases, with harvested switches that have been lubed using the finest tears mounted on a custom plate. So you have something to ogle and show off to the others. And that's before we get into the scarcity territory that sees secondhand TGR Alices going for over 5K. It's weird, a good chunk of people buy my Georg…

[deleted]