Pricing niche products • Hacker News Board

Re: Pricing niche products

#191

Post by phaus » Fri, Oct 04, 2019, 4:55 PM UTC

katet wrote: post #43

iikoolpp wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whereas I own a £1 keyboard and I prefer it vastly more than any mechanical KB I had before.

Just in case this strikes anyone as dismissive, I too sincerely miss the old, beige keyboards that used to come with things like the old IBM, Tiny, MiTac, and Amiga brands I scavenged as a teenager. And those things were _robust_ - you could strip them down, soak them in detergent overnight, and have them good as new the next day without key caps falling off or the space bar sticking.

You don't have to miss them, go on ebay, there's an entire hobby around vintage keyboards too. You can get adapters that enable you to use them on a modern system. Those things were built like tanks and sometimes you can get them for a good price.

Some of them are worth hundreds, but people still find them all the time at flea markets and yard sales for a few dollars.

Re: Pricing niche products

#192

Post by anarchodev » Fri, Oct 04, 2019, 4:56 PM UTC

skyyler wrote: post #178

criley2 wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's funny how on hacker news apparently buying a fancy keyboard for your home where no one can see it is "signalling", but if you point out that wearing Apple watch, holding iPhone, and displaying those ear buds is also signalling/branding/status symboling, I am generally very aggressively downvoted. I'd say buying a mechanical keyboard with RGB lights and nice switches is probably 100X less signalling (several orde…

You're making an emotional response to something that you think is about you. Buying a mechanical keyboard and using it without showing it to anyone isn't what anyone was talking about. There are people that buy rare and expensive mechanical keyboards just to take pictures of them and post them on the internet. I'm not sure why you tried to turn a discussion about hobbies degrading into wealth signalling into your di…

I actually think the original parent post was a more emotionally reactionary than this response. Yeah, it could be the case that mechanical keyboard enthusiasts are all virtue-signaling snobs chasing clout on the internet... or it could be that some people just enjoy the things? And want to share their cool things?

It could be that the community hivemind has decided on an orthodoxy and aggressively judges anyone who doesn't conform.. or it could be that we all just have different preferences and enjoy customizing our desks in this way!

Idk maybe some people are buying expensive kits just because they're expensive but that never occurred to me.

Re: Pricing niche products

#193

Post by driverdan » Fri, Oct 04, 2019, 4:56 PM UTC

katet wrote: post #43

iikoolpp wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whereas I own a £1 keyboard and I prefer it vastly more than any mechanical KB I had before.

Just in case this strikes anyone as dismissive, I too sincerely miss the old, beige keyboards that used to come with things like the old IBM, Tiny, MiTac, and Amiga brands I scavenged as a teenager. And those things were _robust_ - you could strip them down, soak them in detergent overnight, and have them good as new the next day without key caps falling off or the space bar sticking.

Unicomp still makes Model M style buckling spring keyboards. They're good and reasonably priced. https://www.pckeyboard.com/

Re: Pricing niche products

#194

Post by phaus » Fri, Oct 04, 2019, 4:57 PM UTC

squeaky-clean wrote: post #49

katet wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just in case this strikes anyone as dismissive, I too sincerely miss the old, beige keyboards that used to come with things like the old IBM, Tiny, MiTac, and Amiga brands I scavenged as a teenager. And those things were _robust_ - you could strip them down, soak them in detergent overnight, and have them good as new the next day without key caps falling off or the space bar sticking.

Those old keyboards were mechanical though weren't they? Lots of people love the old IBM ones, and they can't be found for just one euro online.

Yes. They used buckling spring switches. Different from Cherry MX's. I think there are modern versions but IMO the way to go is what you suggested, keeping an eye out for a good deal on a real vintage one.

Re: Pricing niche products

#195

Post by phaus » Fri, Oct 04, 2019, 4:59 PM UTC

PhasmaFelis wrote: post #26

phaus wrote: post #2

I have a $600+ keyboard so I'm a part of this hobby. However, only a part of this can be explained by the expense of manufacturing at a small scale. The hobby fully embraces the drawbacks of the small scale and intentionally does nothing to try to improve it because the exclusivity drives prices up to an insane point. A typical group buy for a popular case sells out in minutes or days time after time. Clearly some of…

> There's nothing wrong with any of this There isn't? Deliberately understocking so that some of your users miss out and the rest have to pay more seems like it's all bad for the users, even if it's making money for somebody.

I spoke poorly, I meant there's nothing wrong with people spending money on expensive things simply because they like the way they look/sound. I don't like predatory pricing. Limited Editions are OK, but when every single product is a limited edition designed to milk every last cent out of people I have an issue with it.

Although, if its gonna happen, I am very happy that its happening to a luxury product and not something my friends and relatives that make less than a 3rd of my annual income desperately need to survive.

Re: Pricing niche products

#196

Post by phaus » Fri, Oct 04, 2019, 5:00 PM UTC

PhasmaFelis wrote: post #65

dwoozle wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A vendor doesn’t have to offer the socially optimal package. Other vendors can fill in other gaps.

The GP said: > The hobby intentionally does nothing to try to improve [the drawbacks of the small scale] because the exclusivity drives prices up to an insane point. [...] There is nothing wrong with any of this. If it's still worth it for you, that's fine. Or if you figure that selling a few blinged-out "designer" models at ultra-premium prices helps support the main product, or if you don't care either way because…

I upvoted because I did poorly word what I meant by the latter part of that statement, see above.

Re: Pricing niche products

#197

Post by knolax » Fri, Oct 04, 2019, 5:02 PM UTC

octorian wrote: post #133

I still remember thinking that having a Das Keyboard was a splurge. But in this world, it might as well be a Logitech that no one talks about. (That being said, I've only used Das Keyboards at home and work for the past 6-7 years or so... I'm not really sure what I'd actually gain by seeking out one of these more "boutique" mechanical keyboard brands, and there's so many I'm not even sure where I'd begin anyways.) It…

> Its also a shame that none of this nonsense actually helps any of us when we're using a laptop away from a desk setup.

I use a 68 key keyboard and I'd say the compact design of "boutique" (as put it) keyboards is the main advantage over a Das Keyboard or Razer where they put half an inche of plastic and a bunch of useless media keys/knobs/indicators around all the edges of the keyboard. With the more compact design I can basically carry my mechanical keyboard anywhere I carry my laptop.

Re: Pricing niche products

#198

Post by tomc1985 » Fri, Oct 04, 2019, 5:03 PM UTC

CommieBobDole wrote: post #114

These things have become so esoteric and expensive because the mechanical keyboard hobby is undergoing a more intense version of what happens to most hobbies/pastimes; the purpose of the hobby has transitioned from primarily "making/using the thing" to "obtaining and displaying ever more extreme versions of the thing to impress other people who know about the thing". I feel like this is an outgrowth of the basic huma…

I agree, because for all the money and chatter about them most of the companies providing them are making carbon copies of each other with little real innovation -- they're always the same square shape and its always about fancy keyswitches, RGB, and little else.

Computer-building has turned into this, at least if r/pcmasterrace is any indication. It's positively infuriating -- 99% of people's posts are bragging/validation, there are cliques/cargo cults around 144hz, LinusTechTips, RGB, and watercooling, and I cannot remember the last time I saw an in-depth technical discussion about anything there.

I personally think humans' need to form cliques and ingroups is its worse trait; it has transformed a deeply technical hobby that I love into yet another bragging and dick-waving contest :(

Re: Pricing niche products

#199

Post by thom_nic » Fri, Oct 04, 2019, 5:04 PM UTC

phaus wrote: post #2

I have a $600+ keyboard so I'm a part of this hobby. However, only a part of this can be explained by the expense of manufacturing at a small scale. The hobby fully embraces the drawbacks of the small scale and intentionally does nothing to try to improve it because the exclusivity drives prices up to an insane point. A typical group buy for a popular case sells out in minutes or days time after time. Clearly some of…

This sounds a bit like the custom bicycle frame builder phenomenon as well. Well-known builders/shops can have years-long wait lists and their builds will go for 2x, 5x or 10x the cost of a top of the line mainstream model - 10s of thousands of $$.

Granted each one is built by hand so the artisanal craft is easy to appreciate.

But exclusivity is there, because these shops are building less than a dozen bikes per year. If you got your hands on one, wow it will turn heads when you roll up to the bier garden at the CX race.

Re: Pricing niche products

#200

Post by phaus » Fri, Oct 04, 2019, 5:04 PM UTC

CDSlice wrote: post #176

phaus wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are switches that cost several dollars each that feel distinctly different. In general though I agree, with a specific set of switches, there is likely not a quantifiable improvement to be had by spending $800 more. However, each keyboard case + switch + keycap setup is going to feel and sound slightly different. So it isn't really an objective improvement but they will likely be distinguishable from one anothe…

> However, each keyboard case + switch + keycap setup is going to feel and sound slightly different. So it isn't really an objective improvement but they will likely be distinguishable from one another. Some people are into it for the way it sounds. This sounds pretty much like what headphone audiophiles say. > However, each driver + housing + amp setup is going to feel and sound slightly different. So it isn't reall…

For headphones, the audiophiles are right. They are even right about quality for a $2000 set of headphones, if its the right model vs a fashion brand. Each price tier tends to have a certain level of quality, and within that tier you can expect different sounds still. Some of the super high end stuff has noticeable amounts of detail over a wider range, so it can be actually "better" than a specific $500 set of headphones. Some people still might like the cheaper one though. However, when it comes to the $2000 cables they are full of shit. People have hooked super high end audio equipment to spectrum analyzers and other instruments and audiophiles are objectively getting taken for a ride when it comes to really expensive cables.

IMO, people that spend $2000 on a keyboard are overspending, but they are also aware that its a fashion accessory.