How much a Model M, or better yet, a Model F, cost in today's dollars?
Pricing niche products
161–170 of 368 posts
Re: Pricing niche products
#162Earlier quoted context omitted.
The key difference being audiophiles often fail A/B tests comparing audio quality. You would definitely notice how nice an expensive mechanical keyboard feels. Whether you think that is worth luxury pricing is another story, but the quality is at least more immediately appreciable.
I'm curious how many could distinguish a $400 keyboard from a $1200 keyboard. Once you get into a certain price point, the returns diminish so quickly that I figure most would be unable to tell a difference.
There are switches that cost several dollars each that feel distinctly different. In general though I agree, with a specific set of switches, there is likely not a quantifiable improvement to be had by spending $800 more.
However, each keyboard case + switch + keycap setup is going to feel and sound slightly different. So it isn't really an objective improvement but they will likely be distinguishable from one another. Some people are into it for the way it sounds.
Its not necessarily that more expensive switches = better experience, its more about getting exactly the type of switch you want. IMO the best switches I've ever used were $30 for a 61 key compact keyboard's worth.
Re: Pricing niche products
#163I have a $600+ keyboard so I'm a part of this hobby. However, only a part of this can be explained by the expense of manufacturing at a small scale. The hobby fully embraces the drawbacks of the small scale and intentionally does nothing to try to improve it because the exclusivity drives prices up to an insane point. A typical group buy for a popular case sells out in minutes or days time after time. Clearly some of…
> to see if my wrists would feel better
Does it work?
On a side note, I wish I could buy a split keyboard for $30. Are they much harder to produce?
Re: Pricing niche products
#164These things have become so esoteric and expensive because the mechanical keyboard hobby is undergoing a more intense version of what happens to most hobbies/pastimes; the purpose of the hobby has transitioned from primarily "making/using the thing" to "obtaining and displaying ever more extreme versions of the thing to impress other people who know about the thing". I feel like this is an outgrowth of the basic huma…
Sounds about right to me. The book The Human Zoo by Desmond Morris discusses this phenomenon r.e. people need to feel the best at something so they pick ever smaller niches or hobbies where they can finally compete at a level where they have a chance to get to the top. I would recommend the book as a whole, it has a lot of other interesting info in it too.
Go for Emacs.
It is niche, belongs to the oldest softwares, and a true mark of professionalism:)
Re: Pricing niche products
#165It's disappointing how so much money is being poured into "mechanical keyboard kits" that simply re-create the old ANSI/ISO layouts that are rooted in old limitations from the days of the typewriter. Alternate layouts & ortholinear/ergonomic designs should be the forefront of the movement. All this focus on outdated designs makes the community "accessible" but also holds people back. The emergence of row-staggered 40…
It's disappointing how a $100,000 watch still has a big and little hand going around a conventional 12 hour dial ...
That's not accurate.
There are ergonomic variants of keyboards on the market. There is no viable alternative to the way how we measure time.
Re: Pricing niche products
#166I have a $600+ keyboard so I'm a part of this hobby. However, only a part of this can be explained by the expense of manufacturing at a small scale. The hobby fully embraces the drawbacks of the small scale and intentionally does nothing to try to improve it because the exclusivity drives prices up to an insane point. A typical group buy for a popular case sells out in minutes or days time after time. Clearly some of…
@phaus any improvement to your wrists with the Ergodox?
yes but its only been a couple months with that setup, I think having the ability to tilt each half so the inner side is higher than the outer side has helped my right wrist's tendonitis, but it could be because the tilting forces me to keep my hands off the desk to reach the keys, which is the supposedly "right" way to type, wrist rests help some people but you're still supposedly putting stress on your joints when rested.
If I had the discipline to keep my hands up with a regular keyboard I might have the same results.
Another thing to keep in mind is that it will take longer to tell for sure my wrist pain comes and goes.
Re: Pricing niche products
#167I have a $600+ keyboard so I'm a part of this hobby. However, only a part of this can be explained by the expense of manufacturing at a small scale. The hobby fully embraces the drawbacks of the small scale and intentionally does nothing to try to improve it because the exclusivity drives prices up to an insane point. A typical group buy for a popular case sells out in minutes or days time after time. Clearly some of…
> to see if my wrists would feel better Does it work? On a side note, I wish I could buy a split keyboard for $30. Are they much harder to produce?
I believe some of Microsoft's Ergonomic keyboards are highly regarded. I didn't try any of them. Not mechanical but I hear good things. Some of them seem to have a similar tilt to mine. Its not adjustable though and the ergodox folks say you should adjust regularly (I really don't though and I imagine most people don't).
The other big difference is that while the keyboard is split, it is still one piece whereas mine is actually split.
And finally, the ergodox-ez is ortholinear, so instead of key rows that are staggered, the rows of keys are mostly straight vertically, which is supposedly more natural.
At $40ish dollars, it might be worth trying one of the microsoft options.
My keyboard could have been purchased for about $300 without backlighting. It comes with a bunch of different options for the switch, I just swapped mine out (the sockets are hot-swappable so no soldering). I paid more for backlighting because its also got up to 32 programmable layers and you can assign a different color so you know what layer you're on.
There are some slightly cheaper mechanical options. There's a recommendation threat / question thread in /r/mechanicalkeyboards on alternating days where people might be able to help you find something cheaper. I don't know everything so I might be missing a great option for you that doesn't cost a fortune.
One last note, they are not much harder to produce, its just that no one is doing it at scale yet. They are still trying to find the perfect design. Ergodox is one version, there are lots of other split keyboards like iris, artreus62, etc. I think the ergodox is pretty good, but people with small hands might not be able to hit all of the buttons. There are 6 buttons per thumb. Honestly, if I try to use any but the bottom 3 per thumb I have to move my hands significantly, but I assign those to stuff I don't do often. There are other people making smaller keysets, or changing the position/layout to optimize for their use case. If anything ever definitively catches on we might see a mass produced version.
Re: Pricing niche products
#168Earlier quoted context omitted.
excellent, thanks. I have a deep affection for the buckyboard, so i might have a look to see if can score a set to further annoy my labmates.
there will probably be another edition eventually but as someone still somewhat noobish to this hobby i've heard lots of people are ok waiting a year or two for a new group buy to start for a specific set. If you want one now keep searching /r/mechmarket for "space cadet" and make sure you look into the different kinds of sets. Mine was $170 with shipping from europe, but there are less keys on my ergodox keyboard an…
i'm not in a rush by any means, but i have been liking the split keys so far.
Re: Pricing niche products
#169These things have become so esoteric and expensive because the mechanical keyboard hobby is undergoing a more intense version of what happens to most hobbies/pastimes; the purpose of the hobby has transitioned from primarily "making/using the thing" to "obtaining and displaying ever more extreme versions of the thing to impress other people who know about the thing". I feel like this is an outgrowth of the basic huma…
Very much signalling, you want something that sets you apart from other users and if that means custom CNC'd cases, with harvested switches that have been lubed using the finest tears mounted on a custom plate. So you have something to ogle and show off to the others. And that's before we get into the scarcity territory that sees secondhand TGR Alices going for over 5K. It's weird, a good chunk of people buy my Georg…
It's funny how on hacker news apparently buying a fancy keyboard for your home where no one can see it is "signalling", but if you point out that wearing Apple watch, holding iPhone, and displaying those ear buds is also signalling/branding/status symboling, I am generally very aggressively downvoted.
I'd say buying a mechanical keyboard with RGB lights and nice switches is probably 100X less signalling (several orders of magnitude) than buying a $300 phone for $1100 and wearing gaudy white ear buds.
It's very rare personally that I see other people's setups. It's not like people lug around $300 keyboards with their laptops.
But walk down any popular street in any major city and I bet you can tell who is signalling that they're part of the apple brand.
Re: Pricing niche products
#170I am the owner of several keyboards whose total price is a few thousand. Most of that comes from one rare board which can fetch $3k+ in the aftermarket (TGR Jane V2 CE).
I really have a hard time explaining to people my purchases because it is just something I like for some reason. I love the customization and I liken it to having a project car... something I am saving up for right now.
I have also attended meetups and met a ton of great people through the hobby, so it is not just all throwing money around there is a social component.
Happy to answer any keyboard related questions!