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Unsteady income in young adulthood linked to thinking problems in middle age

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Re: Unsteady income in young adulthood linked to thinking problems in middle age

#111

Post by [deleted] »

malvosenior wrote: post #103
coldtea wrote: post #18

Cue the "I was from a poor family and I got into Stanford, everybody should be able to it" from people who don't understand how life, statistics, outliers, and relative effort required (for a middle/class rich kid playing in "easy mode" to succeed, versus a poor kid playing the "extra hard mode"). People who confuse what's possible but 10x more difficult for some income groups/backgrounds, to be the same as being equ…

As one of those people (I didn't go to Stanford, but I did move a few rungs up the socioeconomic ladder), I take issue with your point. It's not helpful. There is definitely a culture of anti-intellectualism and escapism among the poor in the US (my background). Sure, the rich kids have it easy and it's super easy to sit around feeling bad about that but in many, many cases people could better themselves with a modic…

[deleted]

Re: Unsteady income in young adulthood linked to thinking problems in middle age

#112

Post by mixedCase »

neilv wrote: post #107
malvosenior wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As one of those people (I didn't go to Stanford, but I did move a few rungs up the socioeconomic ladder), I take issue with your point. It's not helpful. There is definitely a culture of anti-intellectualism and escapism among the poor in the US (my background). Sure, the rich kids have it easy and it's super easy to sit around feeling bad about that but in many, many cases people could better themselves with a modic…

> There is definitely a culture of anti-intellectualism and escapism among the poor in the US (my background). One likely way to parse that is as a generalization of all poor people, which I think is inaccurate and harmful.

I think that is a fairly belligerent view on a first-hand observation of a common issue.

Re: Unsteady income in young adulthood linked to thinking problems in middle age

#113

Post by whynaut »

allannienhuis wrote: post #83
Roark66 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It took years to shed some of the residual behaviours, even after I started earning decent money. Despite having savings and reliable income I would still let bills run until they were overdue. You wouldn't believe how many "wealthy" people do the exact same thing including not paying their subcontractors etc. My dad used to do electric installations in new built homes. Usually the larger the house and the wealthier…

> In such situation paying 89 days late is perfectly reasonable. Nothing bad about it. huh? What about the contract you agreed to when you took on the service that says you'd pay within 30 days (or whatever). I really don't understand the logic that says as long as you're willing to accept the consequences, it's ok/moral. It's one thing to have extenuating circumstances that force someone to choose between two bad ch…

> It's one thing to have extenuating circumstances that force someone to choose between two bad choices,

I think that is what was meant by 'prioritizing outgoings'.

Re: Unsteady income in young adulthood linked to thinking problems in middle age

#114

Post by malvosenior »

iherbig wrote: post #110
malvosenior wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As one of those people (I didn't go to Stanford, but I did move a few rungs up the socioeconomic ladder), I take issue with your point. It's not helpful. There is definitely a culture of anti-intellectualism and escapism among the poor in the US (my background). Sure, the rich kids have it easy and it's super easy to sit around feeling bad about that but in many, many cases people could better themselves with a modic…

I think that what you are saying here doesn't necessarily serve as a counterpoint to the GP's point. Rather, it's only an additional piece of evidence. Where GP referred to things like a parent being sick serving as a downward pressure in the effort to improve one's circumstances the point is one of externalities which are not typically accounted for. And in this case, the externality you're bringing up is that often…

By far the best thing people from a poor background can do to better themselves is to fight the culture they are surrounded by. This is why I say the parent post is not "helpful". When things seem hopeless, why fight? It took a tremendous amount of strength and faith in myself to ignore literally everyone I knew and do what I thought was best. I know other people are capable of this as well, even if not to the degree I was. It would be helpful if there was a narrative that it is possible. That reading and self-drive can help you.

"Rich people stacked the deck against you and there's nothing you can do about it" is not helpful in any way. I saw one of the biggest issues was people feeling sorry for themselves and feeling helpless. This is why I react negatively when people who are clearly trying to help poor people do it in ways that don't espouse personal responsibility. It's well meaning, but counterproductive.

Re: Unsteady income in young adulthood linked to thinking problems in middle age

#115

Post by bcrosby95 »

malvosenior wrote: post #103
coldtea wrote: post #18

Cue the "I was from a poor family and I got into Stanford, everybody should be able to it" from people who don't understand how life, statistics, outliers, and relative effort required (for a middle/class rich kid playing in "easy mode" to succeed, versus a poor kid playing the "extra hard mode"). People who confuse what's possible but 10x more difficult for some income groups/backgrounds, to be the same as being equ…

As one of those people (I didn't go to Stanford, but I did move a few rungs up the socioeconomic ladder), I take issue with your point. It's not helpful. There is definitely a culture of anti-intellectualism and escapism among the poor in the US (my background). Sure, the rich kids have it easy and it's super easy to sit around feeling bad about that but in many, many cases people could better themselves with a modic…

Sure. But I was a lazy entitled "upper middle class" kid. I have my job because my parents could afford to support my lazy ass for so long.

So yeah, if you have the grit and drive you can help yourself out to a certain point. But some of us didn't need any grit and basically coasted through life. Why do I deserve this more than kids with less well off parents that fell somewhere between me and you - not a complete lazy ass, but also not determined enough to overcome the problems and external pressures in their life?

Re: Unsteady income in young adulthood linked to thinking problems in middle age

#116

Post by malvosenior »

bcrosby95 wrote: post #115
malvosenior wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As one of those people (I didn't go to Stanford, but I did move a few rungs up the socioeconomic ladder), I take issue with your point. It's not helpful. There is definitely a culture of anti-intellectualism and escapism among the poor in the US (my background). Sure, the rich kids have it easy and it's super easy to sit around feeling bad about that but in many, many cases people could better themselves with a modic…

Sure. But I was a lazy entitled "upper middle class" kid. I have my job because my parents could afford to support my lazy ass for so long. So yeah, if you have the grit and drive you can help yourself out to a certain point. But some of us didn't need any grit and basically coasted through life. Why do I deserve this more than kids with less well off parents that fell somewhere between me and you - not a complete la…

Your story is exactly why poor people should work hard. Plenty of people (not all) in the upper middle class are lazy and have had things handed to them. If you work hard, you can get ahead precisely because those people won't out compete you.

Re: Unsteady income in young adulthood linked to thinking problems in middle age

#117

Post by ozzyman700 »

vixen99 wrote: post #51
ozzyman700 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There would not be poor if it was not for the rich. marx's capital lays this out.

This is otherwise known as the fixed pie myth. No, wealth is not a zero-sum game.

Of course it is not, sorry if it seemed I implied that. productivity is always increasing, but do wages?

https://www.epi.org/productivity-pay-gap/

Re: Unsteady income in young adulthood linked to thinking problems in middle age

#118

Post by vertis »

Roark66 wrote: post #31
vertis wrote: post #16

I went through a few years of unstable income in my early twenties (circa 2000), it wasn't altogether bad, just very very sporadic. When I think back on those years I had all kinds of bad behaviours that were not rational. For example, not paying bills because something more urgent might come up. Not looking at balances because it was easier to not know. I would go from feeling rich one month because a freelance clie…

>It took years to shed some of the residual behaviours, even after I started earning decent money. Despite having savings and reliable income I would still let bills run until they were overdue. You wouldn't believe how many "wealthy" people do the exact same thing including not paying their subcontractors etc. My dad used to do electric installations in new built homes. Usually the larger the house and the wealthier…

I've found the richer people are the less they understand the need for the timely supply of money.

I have extended family that have this problem with their supply of trades. Very keen to get the work done, but paying the bill is somehow not important enough to prioritise.

Re: Unsteady income in young adulthood linked to thinking problems in middle age

#119

Post by harshalizee »

coldtea wrote: post #18

Cue the "I was from a poor family and I got into Stanford, everybody should be able to it" from people who don't understand how life, statistics, outliers, and relative effort required (for a middle/class rich kid playing in "easy mode" to succeed, versus a poor kid playing the "extra hard mode"). People who confuse what's possible but 10x more difficult for some income groups/backgrounds, to be the same as being equ…

I understand where you're coming from and there are definitely statistics and luck at play in the game of like, but I don't fully agree with your conclusion.

As someone who also came from a slightly lower income background I had a lot of support encouraging me to cultivate a habit of reading and from my parents that helped me heaps. Anecdotally, I know many people who came from much higher socioeconomic backgrounds who grew in the exact same environment as I did, couldn't care less about sciences, learning, etc.

The United States has a huge problem of anti-intellectualism and it is looked down upon a lot if you're into computers, a nerd, etc. If you go to third world countries like India, etc. you'll realize that even people who are dirt poor place an extremely huge amount of importance on education. Because time and again, they've seen that the only way to get out of their pit of poverty.

Re: Unsteady income in young adulthood linked to thinking problems in middle age

#120

Post by non-entity »

neilv wrote: post #107
malvosenior wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As one of those people (I didn't go to Stanford, but I did move a few rungs up the socioeconomic ladder), I take issue with your point. It's not helpful. There is definitely a culture of anti-intellectualism and escapism among the poor in the US (my background). Sure, the rich kids have it easy and it's super easy to sit around feeling bad about that but in many, many cases people could better themselves with a modic…

> There is definitely a culture of anti-intellectualism and escapism among the poor in the US (my background). One likely way to parse that is as a generalization of all poor people, which I think is inaccurate and harmful.

Eh, I see a lot of of the same stuff from middle class people in the US as well tbf, so I don't think it's just poor people.
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