China laying tracks for 1,000km/h maglev trains • Hacker News Board

Re: China laying tracks for 1,000km/h maglev trains

#371

Post by jkterhune » Fri, Oct 04, 2019, 2:07 AM UTC

saberience wrote: post #28

So, as someone that lived in New York for 6 years and California for 6 years, stories like this are incredibly depressing. The US is the world's largest economy and should be the shining example of amazing infrastructure, high-tech, green cities, and forward thinking policies. California is an especially egregious example in terms of infrastructure investment: If California was a country it would be the world's fifth…

There are people trying to line up maglev in the northeast. The first leg proposed is between Baltimore and Washington DC: https://northeastmaglev.com/project/timeline/

Re: China laying tracks for 1,000km/h maglev trains

#372

Post by breakerbox » Fri, Oct 04, 2019, 2:09 AM UTC

I still think the US has hope for rail and high speed rail that won’t bankrupt everyone. If, and this is a huge if (bc people love their cars), the US can replace a lane or two of major highways between cities with a rail. This would avoid forcing people to leave their homes or have massive payouts for stubborn landowners. The highway infrastructure is a pretty reasonable layer to build on as many highways already take close to the hypotenuse between major cities.

Anybody know why this concept isn’t talked about more?

Re: China laying tracks for 1,000km/h maglev trains

#373

Post by chao- » Fri, Oct 04, 2019, 2:12 AM UTC

Rapzid wrote: post #361

chao- wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with your sentiments overall, so don't take my "it's not all gloom and doom" comment as a disagreement... But there are people out there trying! The project from Texas Central Railways is looking like a sooner bet than California's line, for a number of reasons. An example of a reason is lower price, stemming from geography. The route doesn't require building tunnels through mountains and the like. Although e…

Yeah, I've been hearing about that for 10 years. -Me 8 years ago Also the new route is a joke. The high speed rail was originally supposed to run from Dallas to San Antonio, and Austin to Houston.

>Yeah, I've been hearing about that for 10 years.

You weren't paying attention then ;) because you could have been hearing about it as far back as the 80's, when Southwest first lobbied it to death (the twice-an-hour-takeoff Houston-Dallas route was their most profitable). I would love to be corrected on this by someone who was in State gov't at that time, but this is my understanding.

>The high speed rail was originally supposed to run from Dallas to San Antonio, and Austin to Houston.

When it was proposed to be federally-funded, yes. From what I recall it was a US-French collaboration that was going to fulfill that one? Unfortunately the politics at the time led to the state gov't to not seek any of the $8BB (iirc) the Obama administration was trying to give out to kick-start nationwide HSR. You can thank Rick Perry & Co. for that.

Now it is a (somewhat) different private group, and if you are posting on Hacker News, I expect you can appreciate how much harder it is to start out with a network connecting 4 cities, than a network connecting 2 cities, when you've not got federal backing. I too would love the "Texas T" network of routes as well, but that didn't happen. Again, you can thank the State administration of a decade ago for turning down the opportunity of federal assistance to build a transit network worthy of Texas.

You say it is "a joke", but it is going to take real work to build, provide real jobs, and deliver real value to people who ride it. Are you so cynical that you would you rather not have it at all, and have nothing to look to, to improve on later? If the route is successful, surely it would come to Austin and San Antonio next? What is the advantage, in your mind, of adopting an all-or-nothing framing?

Re: China laying tracks for 1,000km/h maglev trains

#374

Post by chongli » Fri, Oct 04, 2019, 2:12 AM UTC

qwerty456127 wrote: post #209

saberience wrote: post #28

So, as someone that lived in New York for 6 years and California for 6 years, stories like this are incredibly depressing. The US is the world's largest economy and should be the shining example of amazing infrastructure, high-tech, green cities, and forward thinking policies. California is an especially egregious example in terms of infrastructure investment: If California was a country it would be the world's fifth…

> I hate the fact that an autocratic and repulsive Government The Chinese government is much more autocratic yet it obviously does a much better job in building infrastructure The problem with the US government is lobbyism. It does not work for itself, it does not work for the people, it works for big corporations and lawyers.

Chinese government is much more autocratic yet... building infrastructure

Here’s my hypothesis: when it comes to infrastructure, the operative word is not yet, it’s therefore. Autocrats have a much easier time cutting through any red tape put up by those lower on the food chain than them.

In a democratic society, such as the US, there are countless stakeholders who need to be included in the process for huge infrastructure projects like this. Unfortunately, too many chefs spoil the broth as they say.

Re: China laying tracks for 1,000km/h maglev trains

#375

Post by HenryKissinger » Fri, Oct 04, 2019, 2:16 AM UTC

Aperocky wrote: post #362

HenryKissinger wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you think wealthy Chinese don't live in a separate reality too?

Wealthy Chinese people can't control what the country does, wealthy Americans certainly have the option if they wanted.

Interestingly enough, the collective net worth of the Chinese leadership is higher than the US leadership by at least an order of magnitude.

> The richest 70 members of China’s legislature added more to their wealth last year than the combined net worth of all 535 members of the U.S. Congress, the president and his Cabinet, and the nine Supreme Court justices.

> The net worth of the 70 richest delegates in China’s National People’s Congress, which opens its annual session on March 5, rose to 565.8 billion yuan ($89.8 billion) in 2011, a gain of $11.5 billion from 2010, according to figures from the Hurun Report, which tracks the country’s wealthy. That compares to the $7.5 billion net worth of all 660 top officials in the three branches of the U.S. government.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2012-02-26/china-s-b...

So, if anything, wealthy Chinese people exert an even greater degree of control over the political process than wealthy Americans do over theirs.

Re: China laying tracks for 1,000km/h maglev trains

#376

Post by beerandt » Fri, Oct 04, 2019, 2:16 AM UTC

breakerbox wrote: post #372

I still think the US has hope for rail and high speed rail that won’t bankrupt everyone. If, and this is a huge if (bc people love their cars), the US can replace a lane or two of major highways between cities with a rail. This would avoid forcing people to leave their homes or have massive payouts for stubborn landowners. The highway infrastructure is a pretty reasonable layer to build on as many highways already ta…

It doesn't work like that- the geometric design of high speed rail and interstate highways are significantly different. The same is true for heavy rail vs high speed rail. You need much larger curves, and much smaller gradients for high speed rail.

Also clear space requirements for interstates would likely be infringed, which is one of the biggest factors of safety.

A more workable approach would be to reclaim abandoned rail ROW, and purchased additionally required ROW to extend curve length, where required. However much of this ROW has already been reclaimed by landowners and built upon.

Re: China laying tracks for 1,000km/h maglev trains

#377

Post by m4rtink » Fri, Oct 04, 2019, 2:19 AM UTC

HenryKissinger wrote: post #353

jbay808 wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except the one they're building now... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ch%C5%AB%C5%8D_Shinkansen "About 90% of the 286-kilometre (178 mi) line to Nagoya will be built underground or through tunnels"

As someone who loves tunnels, I'm going to write myself a note to try this line when I make my first trip to Japan.

Well, then definitely try the Kurobe Gorge mountain railway! It's a originally industrial railway in a deep valley that was used for dam construction. On the hour long journey it goes through none less than 42 tunnels & the view (when not underground :) ) is breathtaking. :)

Re: China laying tracks for 1,000km/h maglev trains

#378

Post by WillPostForFood » Fri, Oct 04, 2019, 2:23 AM UTC

Gibbon1 wrote: post #349

jbay808 wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except the one they're building now... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ch%C5%AB%C5%8D_Shinkansen "About 90% of the 286-kilometre (178 mi) line to Nagoya will be built underground or through tunnels"

I feel like this sort of thing just proves that the problem with building high speed rail in the US is cultural[1] and political[2] not technical or economic. [1] Americans have been carefully propagandized to believe that governments can't do anything right. And cars represent manhood and freedom. [2] For instance Ubber and Lift are funding the same anti public transportation organizations the Koch brother(s) were.

Americans have been carefully propagandized to believe that governments can't do anything right

Then the people decide to give the government a chance, pass a proposition asking for rail, and then the government completely screws it up. Terrible route, corrupt, massively over budget, graft, and effectively cancelled after a decade of waste and work. So now even progressive people in progressive California are thinking the government can't so anything right, not because of propaganda, but because they see the failure.

Re: China laying tracks for 1,000km/h maglev trains

#379

Post by WillPostForFood » Fri, Oct 04, 2019, 2:24 AM UTC

nrp wrote: post #291

kurtisc wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not aware of any city-local maglev trains. American cities are still spread out from one-another.

Shanghai happens to have one of the few, but it’s not especially practical: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai_maglev_train

It is pretty practical when you go to the airport.

Re: China laying tracks for 1,000km/h maglev trains

#380

Post by beerandt » Fri, Oct 04, 2019, 2:28 AM UTC

jbay808 wrote: post #285

intopieces wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Why on earth isn't there a high speed rail between these cities? The cost of labor, the cost of environmental studies, the cost of materials, and the need for the project to show a profit. All of these factors are much different in China.

Yeah, that's why Japan and Europe don't have high speed rail either.

They were built before environmental regulation was implemented, the same as the US interstate system. None of those could be built today as cheaply or easily as pre-1970s. If at all.