What’s good career advice you wouldn’t want to have your name on? • Hacker News Board

Re: What’s good career advice you wouldn’t want to have your name on?

#131

Post by excessive » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 11:00 PM UTC

debatem1 wrote: post #68

ggm wrote: post #21

Have the courage to stand up for what you believe in, even if it terminates your employment status. I'm only unkeen to have my name on this, because I haven't done it, and I wish several times in the past, I had. I respect the person who did this early in his career in one ISP immensely: it was stunning to watch somebody say "you're full of shit" to the new CEO, and walk out. (he was btw, full of shit)

I've done similarly career-threatening things in the past and my strongest advice is to stand and deliver in an actionable way . Telling the CEO he is full of shit is not actionable. Telling the CEO that his plan will not work and that to save the situation he needs to do XYZ is. If you've judged the situation correctly and that level of drama is actually necessary, then either they will respect you and do it or they…

> ... either they will respect you and do it or ...

Another possible/likely option - they'll pay lip service to your plan, convince you to stay, and then gradually slip back to the full of shit approach they originally intended.

Re: What’s good career advice you wouldn’t want to have your name on?

#132

Post by dwaltrip » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 11:13 PM UTC

mdorazio wrote: post #71

Article comments and comments in this thread seem to miss the point of the title entirely. Here's some actual advice I don't want my name on, but seems pretty effective based on working at a lot of different Big Cos: - Always go for prestige over purpose. Have a choice between a shiny project with very little actual impact to the company and a behind the scenes project that will actually make lives better for employe…

I don't doubt that this happens frequently in many orgs. But I would like to caution people against grabbing onto the narrative that the unethical, scummy political games played by others are the cause of one's professional suffering. It's an easy thing to do, but just because it feels good doesn't mean it is true.

Of course, it doesn't mean it isn't true. But narratives that soothe the ego should always receive an extra dose of scrutiny.

Re: What’s good career advice you wouldn’t want to have your name on?

#133

Post by ok_coo » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 11:16 PM UTC

Balgair wrote: post #111

mdorazio wrote: post #71

Article comments and comments in this thread seem to miss the point of the title entirely. Here's some actual advice I don't want my name on, but seems pretty effective based on working at a lot of different Big Cos: - Always go for prestige over purpose. Have a choice between a shiny project with very little actual impact to the company and a behind the scenes project that will actually make lives better for employe…

> Especially throwing other people under the bus. Hard disagree with this one. I've seen better success with 'compliment everyone behind their backs, giving a good reason'. Throwing everyone under the bus can be very very effective, but it's got to be for a very short run at the goal, typically. If you end up working with those people again, you're cooked. I'd say, if you don't see yourself working with that person e…

You have to be careful with throwing people under the bus because if it's noticed by people..going to be honest, they are not going to trust you and word will get around. You become that snake to avoid, you're dangerous to work with. So, hopefully you do it in a way where it can't come back to you. At the org I work at, if you're seen doing this, you're not a team player and you get an unofficial mark against you. People will generally look up to people who take responsibility.

Regular smoozing I think is not too hard and you're just being sociable.

If you feel you need to play politics, get with good team and play politics in concert. My department has made a lot of good progress just by providing a united front and influencing together. It doesn't even have to be a bad thing.

Re: What’s good career advice you wouldn’t want to have your name on?

#134

Post by lidHanteyk » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 11:28 PM UTC

mdorazio wrote: post #71

Article comments and comments in this thread seem to miss the point of the title entirely. Here's some actual advice I don't want my name on, but seems pretty effective based on working at a lot of different Big Cos: - Always go for prestige over purpose. Have a choice between a shiny project with very little actual impact to the company and a behind the scenes project that will actually make lives better for employe…

You would have done well to show more examples; people are having trouble with the art of bus manipulation.

* Throw people under the bus, but pull them out at the last moment. "I could say that it's the other team's fault, but we're practicing blameless postmortems. Can we focus on fixing our process?"

* Throw people under multiple busses. "We're behind on the upgrade effort because there are three different upgrade efforts going on and we can't focus on any of them."

* Throw busses at people. "I am not trying to take over your team. I am only asking that we follow the law. Waiting for Legal is a smokescreen; we need to act now or get sued next quarter."

* Be bureaucratic. "I wasn't able to finish the project because we have issues in deployment and code review. We'll be finished soon, and I'm improving our deployment process so that this won't happen again."

Re: What’s good career advice you wouldn’t want to have your name on?

#135

Post by ryandrake » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 11:49 PM UTC

mattnewton wrote: post #50

the_watcher wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same at Facebook and Apple. At least, they're entirely formulaic.

That was not the case when I was at Apple- the formula recommended a bonus but IIRC it was officially at managerial discretion. Different orgs were run with different budgets, and while not this extreme I had seen similar things happen while I was there, including getting lower bonuses myself and one coworker quitting after their bonus was significantly lower than promised (or maybe they were denied it entirely, I do…

AFAICT (as a non-manager), it was entirely manager’s discretion, within a budget, at Apple.

Re: What’s good career advice you wouldn’t want to have your name on?

#136

Post by debatem1 » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 11:50 PM UTC

excessive wrote: post #131

debatem1 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've done similarly career-threatening things in the past and my strongest advice is to stand and deliver in an actionable way . Telling the CEO he is full of shit is not actionable. Telling the CEO that his plan will not work and that to save the situation he needs to do XYZ is. If you've judged the situation correctly and that level of drama is actually necessary, then either they will respect you and do it or they…

> ... either they will respect you and do it or ... Another possible/likely option - they'll pay lip service to your plan, convince you to stay, and then gradually slip back to the full of shit approach they originally intended.

Basically I'm not willing to go to this level of drama unless the consequences of going the other way are really, really obvious. That means things like illegality, safety of life issues, ethical breaches, total project failure, etc. If you just think they're wrong and don't want to deal with their wrongness anymore, tell them so in your resignation letter. Hell, maybe by the time you have an offer in hand they're have realized you're right. Won't that be fun.

But ultimately there is no substitute for good judgement here. You have to decide, sometimes quickly, whether a particular situation demands immediate action of whether it can be forestalled or defeated by other (less risky) means. And you're absolutely right that it requires good judgement and preparation to ensure that they cannot contain or deceive you.

Re: What’s good career advice you wouldn’t want to have your name on?

#137

Post by mnm1 » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 11:57 PM UTC

global6000 wrote: post #128

mnm1 wrote: post #39

Work is irrelevant beyond a paycheck. Don't stress out over anything if it doesn't involve you getting fired. Work as little as possible. Get as much done as you can working as little as possible as long as it doesn't stress you out. Never lose sleep over work. Never work unpaid overtime unless you'll lose your job over it. Never care if your bosses are angry or unhappy as long as it doesn't affect you having a job.…

What other advice do you have?

One I forgot but also in one of the other comments: take your time doing tasks and always look busy. Never rush to complete projects unless doing so gets you political points. Keeping a slow pace of work while looking like working a lot is key. Make many small commits and push them up either all at the end of the day or periodically throughout. Prepare work for a few days ahead if possible and push it up incrementally. Know how to do the minimum to not get fired while still looking very productive. Milk it for all it's worth.

Note, most jobs don't start this way but many end up this way, mainly because your employer doesn't value you. They don't give you proper raises or other compensation to show appreciation. When you can't increase your total compensation, increase your hourly compensation with the above tactic till your per hour rate skyrockets. Best achieved while working remotely. It's also important to not be loyal and always remember that the extra effort will never be rewarded. That said, there are rare, occasional exceptions. Very rare.

Finally, remember, it's hard to get fired at most places. You really have to push your bosses to do it, especially once you've been there for awhile. Take advantage of that. This is all a game, so play it. And speaking of games, have fun whenever you can doing non-work stuff. Or start a business on the side if that's your thing with all the extra time.

Re: What’s good career advice you wouldn’t want to have your name on?

#138

Post by driverdan » Fri, Oct 04, 2019, 12:08 AM UTC

9nGQluzmnq3M wrote: post #114

driverdan wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Get the scoop on what's actually going on at executive levels by making friends with the office managers/personal assistants. I'd expand this to always make friends with gatekeepers. Office managers, PAs, front desk, kitchen staff, building security, etc. They're hardworking people who tend to be ignored and mistreated. Respect them, be friendly, and it will open many gates along with making their lives better.

Genuine question: how is making friends with the kitchen staff going to advance your career?

You never know. They may not get you a promotion but they can improve your quality of life. They're more likely to respond to your input about what the kitchen should stock and/or serve. As another reply mentioned they may pass on information.

Be good to others and they'll be good to you.

Re: What’s good career advice you wouldn’t want to have your name on?

#139

Post by insickness » Fri, Oct 04, 2019, 12:10 AM UTC

- When trying to decide on a new career direction, go onto career websites such as Indeed.com and look up what is the highest paying and most desirable. For example, whenever I go for a certification, I do a search for it on Indeed. I look at how many hits come up, how much it pays, etc.

- Dress just a little bit nicer/more formal than everyone else in your workplace. People who don't know you will assume you are more important than you are and people who do know you will unconsciously associate you with upper management and you'll be more likely to get promoted. Management promotes people they "see" as management material. If you look the part, they're more likely to see you that way.

- Take audio recordings of your meetings with your coworkers and boss. Use the recordings to take notes that you may have missed at the meetings. Particularly in a new position, going back and listening helps to pick up what people emphasize.

- If people can see your computer screen, do all your non-work bullshit on your phone, where people can't see. Keep only work stuff on your computer screen and you will look productive.

- Don't ever tell anyone at work anything personal that could be even slightly controversial, including political beliefs. People like to talk shit and if they have something on you, it will get spread around most workplaces. Gossip is cache for people and they'll use whatever they have to make themselves more likable.

Re: What’s good career advice you wouldn’t want to have your name on?

#140

Post by knaik94 » Fri, Oct 04, 2019, 12:30 AM UTC

insickness wrote: post #139

- When trying to decide on a new career direction, go onto career websites such as Indeed.com and look up what is the highest paying and most desirable. For example, whenever I go for a certification, I do a search for it on Indeed. I look at how many hits come up, how much it pays, etc. - Dress just a little bit nicer/more formal than everyone else in your workplace. People who don't know you will assume you are mor…

Questions about the audio recording, have you ever had pushback from others? Is it a ask for forgiveness not permission situation?

How transparent have you been day to day, for example is it visible during meetings or in your pocket? And do you keep a specific audio recorder/use only work phone or have you recorded on personal devices like your non-work phone?