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China laying tracks for 1,000km/h maglev trains

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Re: China laying tracks for 1,000km/h maglev trains

#141

Post by beerandt »

NeedMoreTea wrote: post #110
beerandt wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't looked at the particulars for this project, but typically the practical limit of high speed rail is 300-500 miles. Beyond that, it's cheaper and greener to fly. If you aren't concerned with cheap or green, and want to focus on fast... Then high speed rail might be a better option until the TSA is involved.

Since when is air ever greener than rail? Everything I've seen puts air at a hugely higher carbon impact.

I have some published LCAs at home, but the gist is that most US studies:

-assume improving existing infrastructure instead of new right of way and new track, which limits speed to ~125 mph

-calculate efficiency ignoring embeded energy/costs (fuel per passenger mile, instead of complete LCA)

-are based on unrealistic track usage. At some capacity a track can't hold anymore trains and you need a second track, while airspace for additional planes is flexible and almost free. Also the faster the train, the further they need to be spaced out, which typically reduces capacity.

-price subsidies such that ticket price per passenger mile is roughly $0.45 rural - $0.55 Urban, which matches airfare for shorter flights, but not longer ones. (500+ miles)

-that pricing is targeted because it correlates roughly to the service window where time of travel is roughly competitive with air travel, taking into account check-in time.

Re: China laying tracks for 1,000km/h maglev trains

#142

Post by beerandt »

akvadrako wrote: post #118
NeedMoreTea wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since when is air ever greener than rail? Everything I've seen puts air at a hugely higher carbon impact.

I can't find anything online that suggests air is ever cleaner than rail. The discrepancy is a factor of 20¹, so it would be surprising if circumstances overcame that, unless you are traveling across an ocean. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_impact_of_transp...

For idealized shorter range distances (300~350 miles) I've seen claims of 2x or 2.5x, sometimes up to 5x, but that's using full LCA, not just fuel per passenger mile. The embedded energy in ROW and track are significant, and it doesn't scale well (capacity wise) compared to air travel.

Re: China laying tracks for 1,000km/h maglev trains

#143

Post by nicoburns »

simion314 wrote: post #125
mrtksn wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m under the impression that the US public want cars not trains and even the current tech celebrity’s vision is to have self driving cars that work together as if they are train carriages and go in a tunnel as if they are metro train carriages. In the rest of the world, people are fine with ride sharing.

I understand this for inside a city, using a car is more pleas sent then sharing a bus or metro with strangers but when you travel a long distance you use a plane so all the comfort is gone, it would be better to have a high speed train , you still share it with strangers but if you are rich you can afford better accommodations including beds, you can walk and stretch your legs and there may even be spots for smokers…

> using a car is more pleas sent then sharing a bus or metro with strangers

Not when it means you're stuck in a traffic jam. In a big city I'd take decent metro system over a car any day.

Re: China laying tracks for 1,000km/h maglev trains

#144

Post by melling »

saberience wrote: post #28

So, as someone that lived in New York for 6 years and California for 6 years, stories like this are incredibly depressing. The US is the world's largest economy and should be the shining example of amazing infrastructure, high-tech, green cities, and forward thinking policies. California is an especially egregious example in terms of infrastructure investment: If California was a country it would be the world's fifth…

Depressing?!? It’s incredibly exciting!

The United States wasn’t going to build these. Americans have been making excuses since the 1970s.

Jerry Brown tried to build the CA bullet train 4 decades ago.

Electric cars, electric buses, bullet trains, low-speed maglevs, high speed maglevs... China is making it happen!

In America, all we want is “drill, baby, drill”

Re: China laying tracks for 1,000km/h maglev trains

#145

Post by NTDF9 »

saberience wrote: post #28

So, as someone that lived in New York for 6 years and California for 6 years, stories like this are incredibly depressing. The US is the world's largest economy and should be the shining example of amazing infrastructure, high-tech, green cities, and forward thinking policies. California is an especially egregious example in terms of infrastructure investment: If California was a country it would be the world's fifth…

> I took the train once from Irvine to Los Angeles and felt I had gone back in time to 1980. This in one of the richest counties in the world (OC)

Have you considered that richness is not measured correctly? Since GDP is effectively consumption, the more a person consumes, the richer a country is. A thousand people driving 5 hours between LA and SF will make the country richer. Not the people, which China appears to be wanting to do.

Re: China laying tracks for 1,000km/h maglev trains

#146

Post by greenonions »

geogra4 wrote: post #3

As fast as a jetliner, and way more efficient. Can be powered without fossil fuels. This is the future. Where is America on HSR?

The Texas Central Railway project will be the first true high speed rail in the country, using Shinkansen tech.

Re: China laying tracks for 1,000km/h maglev trains

#147

Post by chao- »

saberience wrote: post #28

So, as someone that lived in New York for 6 years and California for 6 years, stories like this are incredibly depressing. The US is the world's largest economy and should be the shining example of amazing infrastructure, high-tech, green cities, and forward thinking policies. California is an especially egregious example in terms of infrastructure investment: If California was a country it would be the world's fifth…

I agree with your sentiments overall, so don't take my "it's not all gloom and doom" comment as a disagreement... But there are people out there trying! The project from Texas Central Railways is looking like a sooner bet than California's line, for a number of reasons. An example of a reason is lower price, stemming from geography. The route doesn't require building tunnels through mountains and the like.

Although even then there are some disappointing Catch-22 processes at work. A State Senator is using the existence of a particular court case to try and delay/prevent funding, and the plaintiffs of a court case using the Senator's opposition (which cites their case) as an argument in favor of their case.

Nonetheless, I'm optimistic on the Dallas to Houston high speed rail. In my dreams, I see that project's completion as giving California a dose of motivation, so as not to be second fiddle to Texas.

Re: China laying tracks for 1,000km/h maglev trains

#148

Post by Gibbon1 »

melling wrote: post #144
saberience wrote: post #28

So, as someone that lived in New York for 6 years and California for 6 years, stories like this are incredibly depressing. The US is the world's largest economy and should be the shining example of amazing infrastructure, high-tech, green cities, and forward thinking policies. California is an especially egregious example in terms of infrastructure investment: If California was a country it would be the world's fifth…

Depressing?!? It’s incredibly exciting! The United States wasn’t going to build these. Americans have been making excuses since the 1970s. Jerry Brown tried to build the CA bullet train 4 decades ago. Electric cars, electric buses, bullet trains, low-speed maglevs, high speed maglevs... China is making it happen! In America, all we want is “drill, baby, drill”

> Jerry Brown tried to build the CA bullet train 4 decades ago.

Amusing to me he did the Rip Van Winkle and popped up as Governor again after 30 years. In office he pushed hard to get CHSR built. Every time California's high speed rails come up on HN it's obvious that everyone here hates the idea. So the US is getting what it's collectively asking for and deserves here.

Re: China laying tracks for 1,000km/h maglev trains

#149

Post by [deleted] »

simion314 wrote: post #130
jackyinger wrote: post #63

Has anyone else here ridden the maglev in Shanghai out of the airport? My 2c is that it was awesomely fast and convenient. BUT, I was a little unnerved by how much the train jostled at some points. It was like the supports for the track had sunk in some places leading to the tracks no longer being aligned. Not really informed by anything concrete, but I think there’s a disaster waiting to happen there. China has nowh…

>the safety culture I’m used to in the states. From the Boeing 747 MAX incidents you can conclude that if there is a big pile of money involved then safety is a problem to be workaround of, though funny enough there are still people that blame the cause on the safety regulations, like if the regulations were not present then Boeing and the free market (with only 2 competitors) would solve the issues

[deleted]

Re: China laying tracks for 1,000km/h maglev trains

#150

Post by B1FF_PSUVM »

wil421 wrote: post #34
HenryKissinger wrote: post #2

Meanwhile, in America...

Meanwhile in America we have a world class freight system between America, Canada, and Mexico that’s unrivaled anywhere else in the world. Europe uses trucking which is less environmentally friendly[1] than rail. The United States also runs the largest rail system in the world[2] vs any country (and the combined EU[3]). Europe is leading the world in electrification and they are likely getting that power from greener…

> world class freight system

Word. I once stood on a bridge counting the cargo cars in a train passing beneath us, and gave up at 88 or so because I was pointlessly delaying a friend ...

They don't look like much, but they work like that quip: "Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes".

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