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Attorney General will ask Zuckerberg to halt plans for end-to-end encryption

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Re: Attorney General will ask Zuckerberg to halt plans for end-to-end encryption

#81
Forgive the OT comment but in the UK we have a soft drinks manufacturer named AG Barr, most famous for Irn Bru.

I spent a few moments trying to understand what had led to the manufacturer of Tizer, Irn Bru, and various other traditional British soft drinks getting involved in this.

https://www.agbarr.co.uk/

Re: Attorney General will ask Zuckerberg to halt plans for end-to-end encryption

#82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read that as 99% of activity that is caught on Facebook is caught by Facebook's systems, with law enforcement only catching 1%.

That's still not an especially resounding success, or an especially relevant metric for us to understand the efficacy of FB's detection systems, and doesn't help us understand whether encryption of content is going to hurt hunting CEP. For example, they might be spotting a large fraction via network analysis, or other metadata approaches. Alternatively, they might just hash every image sent over messenger and match t…

All it says is that the cops are terrible at finding this kind of content on FB, which is to be expected since they have only a very limited view into the platform. The only stuff the cops are catching that FB isn't is when they knock down someone's door and grab their FB password to look for stuff the filters missed.

Re: Attorney General will ask Zuckerberg to halt plans for end-to-end encryption

#83

"We are writing to request that Facebook does not proceed with its plan to implement end-to-end encryption across its messaging services without ensuring that there is no reduction to user safety." I don't understand why they don't just ask for what they want, why say it's about "user safety" when it's not about that at all. Just say "As a matter of national security, the government needs to be able to read user mess…

Quite simply because this makes it hard for Facebook to fight back. If they do, they look like they're on the wrong side of morality.

If the demand was phrased around security, it would be less emotionally laden (for most).

Re: Attorney General will ask Zuckerberg to halt plans for end-to-end encryption

#84

Sometimes I can understand the willingness to reduce the privacy of self and others in order to ensure that the law is able to prosecute those involved in heinous crimes. Our current political environment though involved a president openly calling on foreign governments to investigate his political opponents. What is to stop them from going after the private communications of those same opponents in the name of targe…

Ultimately there's nothing stopping criminals from using any number of E2E alternatives. Short of banning open source software, there's nothing the US government can really do here. Forcing Facebook to leave in a government backdoor will just send all the criminals to other services or even to roll their own.

Under the Constitution the government doesn’t have a leg to stand on to either ban crypto or ban open source software. Certainly no more than it can ban algebra, Elvish or volunteer work.

Re: Attorney General will ask Zuckerberg to halt plans for end-to-end encryption

#85

Sometimes I can understand the willingness to reduce the privacy of self and others in order to ensure that the law is able to prosecute those involved in heinous crimes. Our current political environment though involved a president openly calling on foreign governments to investigate his political opponents. What is to stop them from going after the private communications of those same opponents in the name of targe…

Exactly. And we have evidence of similar behavior occurring.

COINTELPRO was a thing that actually happened and should be brought up every time privacy rights and government surveillance is discussed

Re: Attorney General will ask Zuckerberg to halt plans for end-to-end encryption

#86
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

don't trust the client. How easy it would be for a motivated community to create a binary patch that skipped the local abuse checks?

There are ways to run trusted code on a client using remote enclaves (provided it is supported by the local CPU) https://signal.org/blog/private-contact-discovery/

How are you going to get a pedo to setup a secure enclave on his box that you control?

This is one of those technologies that are cool in theory but almost impossible to implement in practice on current hardware.

Re: Attorney General will ask Zuckerberg to halt plans for end-to-end encryption

#87
post #81

Forgive the OT comment but in the UK we have a soft drinks manufacturer named AG Barr, most famous for Irn Bru. I spent a few moments trying to understand what had led to the manufacturer of Tizer, Irn Bru, and various other traditional British soft drinks getting involved in this. https://www.agbarr.co.uk/

That caught me too...

Re: Attorney General will ask Zuckerberg to halt plans for end-to-end encryption

#88

Sometimes I can understand the willingness to reduce the privacy of self and others in order to ensure that the law is able to prosecute those involved in heinous crimes. Our current political environment though involved a president openly calling on foreign governments to investigate his political opponents. What is to stop them from going after the private communications of those same opponents in the name of targe…

> Encrypt it, end to end, the government does not need to be able access all private communications of private citizens. Law enforcement and security agencies need to be able to access any communication. This does not mean that they should monitor all communications. They can eavesdrop on any phone call. They do not eavesdrop on all phone calls. The problem with E2E encryption is that it prevents eavesdropping even w…

The police have more than enough data to do their jobs without having sweeping surveillance powers.

Even with E2E the police can get warrants for the devices which is usually more than enough to access data.

They just want an easier job, it’s not a major roadblock. When police jobs being easy is a good sign that privacy has been completely destroyed.

Re: Attorney General will ask Zuckerberg to halt plans for end-to-end encryption

#89
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> captures 99% of child exploitation and terrorism-related content Credit where it's due, good on them building such effective systems to catch this content.

apropos: https://i.imgur.com/djxjXbj.jpg

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Horsemen_of_the_Infocalyp...

Re: Attorney General will ask Zuckerberg to halt plans for end-to-end encryption

#90
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Framing it in terms of business models and inevitability dodges the question of whether they should be doing it in the first place.

You mean, should free advertising-subsidized services even exist?

Mining and storing user data is in no way a requirement to run ads.
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