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A rise in vegetarian options leads customers to embrace meat-free meals

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Re: A rise in vegetarian options leads customers to embrace meat-free meals

#211

Post by zelly »

flyGuyOnTheSly wrote: post #41
_Microft wrote: post #8

The dish mentioned sounds far better than what is usually served as vegetarian food at canteens and restaurants. Quite often they offer just a compilation of side-dishes to have something vegetarian on their menu. (Dumblings with red cabbage and - wait for it - gravy from roasting meat is a widespread menu offer for vegetarians in southern Germany. Not sure if it counts as vegetarian option though). Once people notic…

Vegetarian food can be delicious or disgusting, just as meat can be. I wouldn't salivate over sitting down to a dinner of boiled stew beef cubes without any seasoning at all... Which is pretty much the equivalent of boiled rice and broccoli. (Standard vegetarian fare at a lot of cafeterias in North America). I noticed something yesterday... Capitalistic enterprises really shit on vegetarians for some reason, and I ca…

In the US (likely same for Canada), livestock farmers are given huge subsidies. What a farmer pays for corn for cows is much less than you would pay to buy corn, after accounting for the difference in quality, because they get tax subsidies. So it's actually central planning (socialism) that is making plants more expensive than meat.

Re: A rise in vegetarian options leads customers to embrace meat-free meals

#212

Post by mikepurvis »

shantly wrote: post #171
mikepurvis wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I often choose the vegetarian option when eating out simply because I know how to grill a steak or roast some chicken at home— I can make those meals just as well as they can, and for half the cost or less. When I see multiple vegetarian meal options, that's a signal that the chef isn't just doing a low effort protein swap-out but is actually offering something tasty and interesting, and I'm interested to try it.

Huh. I do the opposite—I order meat out (not always, but sometimes) and rarely cook it at home. I can and every now and then do make good dishes with meat, but find it fussy, messy, and very expensive if you screw it up. Plus I have trouble with the leftovers (leftover chicken almost always has a really, really bad flavor to me, for example). Veggies have their own PITA issues, of course. I just prefer to put up with…

That's fair. I'm mostly cooking on the weekends, for a family of five, so doing something like a 4lb roast chicken with potatoes and veggies is a pretty economical and straightforward meal. Everyone gets their fill, but there's enough left for at least one lunch portion or maybe even a second dinner like chicken Caesar wraps.

Re: A rise in vegetarian options leads customers to embrace meat-free meals

#213

Post by thraxil »

A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #20

I always found vegan movement oddly close to religion. At my work, guy drives a car that has a custom VEGAN plate. I am not sure why I should know his dietary restrictions. I don't like liver. Do I add bumper indicating my dislike for liver consumption? Can someone rationalize it for me? Is it like sub-culture?

The first point is that for many, being vegan isn't a "dietary restriction", but a lifestyle based on a moral philosophy that we shouldn't harm sentient beings more than necessary. Eg, the Vegan Society's definition is (in part): "A philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose."

There are vegans who really get into being VEGAN as an identity. Then there are the other ones who just do what we do and don't see a need to volunteer it or announce it at every possible chance. Some just live their lives, some participate in various aspects of animal rights activism. Either way, the VEGAN identity folks tend to be the ones that you will notice and remember. The rest, you pass by every day and probably never even know. (It's also worth mentioning that there are also a lot of people who are "vegan" as a fad diet (like "keto" or "paleo") but don't subscribe to the philosophy (vegans will usually try to make the distinction that those folks really just follow a plant-based diet), there are vegans who also get into weird things like raw food, alkaline water, fasting, etc. Like it or not, any large group of people will have fringes like this and they tend to be very vocal and attention seeking.)

Similarly, there are meat eaters who make BACON a huge part of their identity and like to remind you every chance they get how much they like it and "carnivore" dieters, etc.

Re: A rise in vegetarian options leads customers to embrace meat-free meals

#214

Post by Sawamara »

jedimastert wrote: post #91
_Microft wrote: post #8

The dish mentioned sounds far better than what is usually served as vegetarian food at canteens and restaurants. Quite often they offer just a compilation of side-dishes to have something vegetarian on their menu. (Dumblings with red cabbage and - wait for it - gravy from roasting meat is a widespread menu offer for vegetarians in southern Germany. Not sure if it counts as vegetarian option though). Once people notic…

POV: Omnivore with a (previously) vegetarian spouse. We generally ate veg @ home One of my biggest issues with modern veg diets is all of the veg food trying to masquerade as other food. Soy bacon does not taste like, or taste as good as, real bacon. Tofu and Boca burgers do not taste like actual meat. But tofu and the like can taste amazing on its own merit . It's an ingredient with it's own flavors and textures, so…

Here is the thing though (8+ year vegetarian here, with vegan periods): we have been grown up eating shit like that. Eating sausages, salami, all that jazz.

There is nothing wrong with going back to the spices and texture of that. A certified bio soy sausage gives me everything that I want to get that is familiar and similar to me eating hot-dogs in my childhood - and without any ethical concerns. So please, do understand that not everyone wants to replicate food, but rather just want something with a shape of familiarity to insert into their everyday staples.

Re: A rise in vegetarian options leads customers to embrace meat-free meals

#215

Post by sterkekoffie »

vonmoltke wrote: post #168
sterkekoffie wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Veganism is not a dietary preference, it's a system of ethics. If there had been vanity plates in the 1910s there probably would have been some that said 5UFFR4G3, too. Veganism extends to all modes of consumption, not just food--for example, vegans don't buy leather or animal-tested makeup. Side note, to reduce confusion like yours, some people use 'plant-based' specifically to describe vegan food. People are vegan,…

This one is apparently OK with eradicating rats: https://gothamist.com/news/revolting-dead-rat-soup-future-ny...

Shooting a bear that's charging at you isn't non-vegan, and by the same token, pest control isn't necessarily non-vegan either. This is the de facto definition of veganism:

> Veganism is a way of living which seeks to exclude, as far as is possible and practicable, all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose.

And of course, what's possible and practicable is subjective.

Re: A rise in vegetarian options leads customers to embrace meat-free meals

#216

Post by jedimastert »

ohbleek wrote: post #206
jedimastert wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

POV: Omnivore with a (previously) vegetarian spouse. We generally ate veg @ home One of my biggest issues with modern veg diets is all of the veg food trying to masquerade as other food. Soy bacon does not taste like, or taste as good as, real bacon. Tofu and Boca burgers do not taste like actual meat. But tofu and the like can taste amazing on its own merit . It's an ingredient with it's own flavors and textures, so…

I get so tired of this argument. If you were raised eating meat then you'll likely have tendencies to eat meals based around meat. Meat substitutes make sense in the current world and given the typical diet of western cultures. It doesn't have to taste just like the meat it mocks, it just has to taste good. There is nothing special about the taste of chicken or beef other than it is good and you're used to it. If som…

I wasn't trying to make the argument that "'not meat' doesn't taste as good as 'meat', so don't eat it", but rather "Don't eat oranges looking for apple". Oranges are still delicious, but they're different and comparing them is not the point.

Also, I might disagree with this statement:

> There is nothing special about the taste of chicken or beef other than it is good and you're used to it.

Umami (savoriness) is actually fairly difficult to find outside of meat if you have an even slightly limited diet and some studies suggest it's craved as an instinctive signal of protein (like sweetness and simple carbs), so if you just stop eating meat there can definitely something missing.

(BTW, if you're trying to get off of meat but still have a craving, dried mushrooms and soy sauce have very concentrated umami flavors, and adding MSG can just up the tasty factor in a lot of dishes)

Re: A rise in vegetarian options leads customers to embrace meat-free meals

#217

Post by Reedx »

jedimastert wrote: post #91
_Microft wrote: post #8

The dish mentioned sounds far better than what is usually served as vegetarian food at canteens and restaurants. Quite often they offer just a compilation of side-dishes to have something vegetarian on their menu. (Dumblings with red cabbage and - wait for it - gravy from roasting meat is a widespread menu offer for vegetarians in southern Germany. Not sure if it counts as vegetarian option though). Once people notic…

POV: Omnivore with a (previously) vegetarian spouse. We generally ate veg @ home One of my biggest issues with modern veg diets is all of the veg food trying to masquerade as other food. Soy bacon does not taste like, or taste as good as, real bacon. Tofu and Boca burgers do not taste like actual meat. But tofu and the like can taste amazing on its own merit . It's an ingredient with it's own flavors and textures, so…

That's interesting. Now thinking about it, a downside of this framing is that it might turn people away from those ingredients. Particularly if it's their first time trying it.

If you're expecting bacon and it doesn't taste like bacon, then your impression and association with said ingredient is going to be negative by default.

Re: A rise in vegetarian options leads customers to embrace meat-free meals

#218

Post by bobbytherobot »

A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #20

I always found vegan movement oddly close to religion. At my work, guy drives a car that has a custom VEGAN plate. I am not sure why I should know his dietary restrictions. I don't like liver. Do I add bumper indicating my dislike for liver consumption? Can someone rationalize it for me? Is it like sub-culture?

Yes and no. There certainly is what you describe. They are what many people think as vegan because it is the most vocal subset of vegans. There are many who eat vegan but don't proclaim it.

It is like my father-in-law who believes all gay people are loud and flamboyant. When in reality, he is dense and requires someone to hit him over the head to see it.

I've seen this out workplaces where a coworker A is vegan. A new coworker B notices and starts having a friendly chat with A about vegan food. Coworker B, who has been working and eating lunch with A for two years, is surprised to learn that A is vegan the whole time.

Re: A rise in vegetarian options leads customers to embrace meat-free meals

#219

Post by benj111 »

lukeschlather wrote: post #208
benj111 wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One other thing I've never quite understood is that a child can watch James Bond shoot a few hundred people and that's fine, it is significantly less fine for that child to watch a film of 2 people having sex, even though sex is a normal heathy part of life. In the UK a 16 year old can legally have sex, but cant watch it?! Tbh I'm not sure, I get turned off by things like Saw, because I don't really think theres the…

I mean for me it's just a question of nutrition. Especially if I'm doing a lot of activity, vegetarian food that "pretends to be meat" gives me a lot more protein with less fiber and carbs which translates into a better balance for exercise.

It doesn't sound like you're a vegetarian for an animal welfare reason though?

If you've stopped eating meat for environmental/health reasons then there isn't really the contradiction.

'Salty Crispy protein bits' gets us the same thing as vegetarian bacon, without seemingly being morally objectionable to a demographic you're targeting.

Re: A rise in vegetarian options leads customers to embrace meat-free meals

#220

Post by gnicholas »

> Other variables that influenced dining choices included the relative prices of vegetarian and non-vegetarian options, and the outdoor temperature.

I wonder what the temperature correlation was — do hotter or colder temps lead to more vegetarian consumption?

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