Hong Kong protests: Authorities to announce face mask ban • Hacker News Board

Re: Hong Kong protests: Authorities to announce face mask ban

#51

Post by knzhou » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 5:20 PM UTC

calderarrow wrote: post #25

During the American revolutionary war, France was a tremendous ally and instrumental to the colonies’ secession from Britain. The Marquis de Lafayette came over to fight for us, without pay, in his early 20s, forgoing his family’s desires and aristocratic opportunities. His family was so opposed to him going to the colonies, that local governments were involved in finding and preventing him from boarding ships. He ev…

You’d do more harm than good. Your “fighting for glory” is somebody else’s “insidious foreign intervention”. Let the people speak for themselves.

Re: Hong Kong protests: Authorities to announce face mask ban

#52

Post by kmonsen » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 5:24 PM UTC

thewholeview wrote: post #44

calderarrow wrote: post #25

During the American revolutionary war, France was a tremendous ally and instrumental to the colonies’ secession from Britain. The Marquis de Lafayette came over to fight for us, without pay, in his early 20s, forgoing his family’s desires and aristocratic opportunities. His family was so opposed to him going to the colonies, that local governments were involved in finding and preventing him from boarding ships. He ev…

While I have full respect for you to preach what you believe in, I'd like to urge the consideration for a detachment of promotion for democracy with regards to morality. Whichever mode of governance is simple a practice of value proposition that a particular regime sees as fit for their particular regional control/political reign. While democracy has its ostensible upsides, is such a protest at length really what's o…

I think people of HK have tried other more peaceful approaches in the past and have received nothing in return from Beijing.

Do you have any propositions of what citizens of HK, or China, can do to get more freedoms like freedom of speech or from random arrests on trumped up charges which is how the current situation started? I don't think anyone in HK want to be in this situation but for many they see it as a last choice they are willing to risk their life for.

Re: Hong Kong protests: Authorities to announce face mask ban

#53

Post by kmonsen » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 5:25 PM UTC

sixothree wrote: post #12

I think it odd that we have to look at another country losing its rights to understand the feeling of loss. Much of what they have been doing in Hong Kong would never have been allowed here in America.

Can you come with some concrete examples of what would have not been allowed? The US is still a very free country with robust freedom of speech and mostly fair and open court cases.

Re: Hong Kong protests: Authorities to announce face mask ban

#54

Post by kire2345 » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 5:26 PM UTC

It has long been illegal to wear face masks at protests in Germany, as well as wearing things like bike helmets or other protection against police force. They call it "protection weapon" or "passive weapon". German police usually films every attendee of a protest.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-mask_law

Re: Hong Kong protests: Authorities to announce face mask ban

#55

Post by petre » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 5:27 PM UTC

thewholeview wrote: post #44

calderarrow wrote: post #25

During the American revolutionary war, France was a tremendous ally and instrumental to the colonies’ secession from Britain. The Marquis de Lafayette came over to fight for us, without pay, in his early 20s, forgoing his family’s desires and aristocratic opportunities. His family was so opposed to him going to the colonies, that local governments were involved in finding and preventing him from boarding ships. He ev…

While I have full respect for you to preach what you believe in, I'd like to urge the consideration for a detachment of promotion for democracy with regards to morality. Whichever mode of governance is simple a practice of value proposition that a particular regime sees as fit for their particular regional control/political reign. While democracy has its ostensible upsides, is such a protest at length really what's o…

In a democracy you don't get abducted by the governent for criticizing it, like it happened to Ai Weiwei and countless others in China. So I guess these idealistic students know better.

I understand that Deng Xiaoping's doctrine was first economic growth and only then political change, but I highly doubt the CCP would ever allow itself to be challenged by organising truly free elections.

Re: Hong Kong protests: Authorities to announce face mask ban

#56

Post by ajnin » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 5:32 PM UTC

kire2345 wrote: post #54

It has long been illegal to wear face masks at protests in Germany, as well as wearing things like bike helmets or other protection against police force. They call it "protection weapon" or "passive weapon". German police usually films every attendee of a protest. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-mask_law

Same in France. They make it illegal to bring respiratory masks or saline solution to protests, then they flood them with tear gas; they launch military-grade grenades (GLI-F4) into crowds, harming and maiming indiscriminately, and prosecute those who kick them back. And when people stop going to protests they can claim that they won the battle of ideas.

Re: Hong Kong protests: Authorities to announce face mask ban

#57

Post by jlmorton » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 5:33 PM UTC

kmonsen wrote: post #53

sixothree wrote: post #12

I think it odd that we have to look at another country losing its rights to understand the feeling of loss. Much of what they have been doing in Hong Kong would never have been allowed here in America.

Can you come with some concrete examples of what would have not been allowed? The US is still a very free country with robust freedom of speech and mostly fair and open court cases.

If protesters in the US were throwing petrol bombs, the police in the US would begin shooting people en masse.

If there were months of mass protests in the US, the national guard would be called in to stop them, with full military equipment. This is what happened in Ferguson, for instance, and the police there did shoot and kill at least one protester.

What happens domestically, we refer to as riots. What happens internationally, we refer to as protests. During the LA Riots, over 10,000 national guard troops were called in, and the police and Guardsmen killed at least ten people - either rioters, or protesters, depending on your perspective.

Re: Hong Kong protests: Authorities to announce face mask ban

#58

Post by verttii » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 5:41 PM UTC

kmonsen wrote: post #52

thewholeview wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I have full respect for you to preach what you believe in, I'd like to urge the consideration for a detachment of promotion for democracy with regards to morality. Whichever mode of governance is simple a practice of value proposition that a particular regime sees as fit for their particular regional control/political reign. While democracy has its ostensible upsides, is such a protest at length really what's o…

I think people of HK have tried other more peaceful approaches in the past and have received nothing in return from Beijing. Do you have any propositions of what citizens of HK, or China, can do to get more freedoms like freedom of speech or from random arrests on trumped up charges which is how the current situation started? I don't think anyone in HK want to be in this situation but for many they see it as a last c…

Countries who have successfully gained independence have often sacrificed a lot of blood for it. And built strong armed forces to back that independence up with.

Whatever we may think is morally right, HK does not seem to be putting together that hard resistance, nor is it building up its own armed forces to declare and maintain independence with. China thinks HK is legally theirs and nothing we say or do will change their position over it.

That's why I don't see these protests achieving anything.

Re: Hong Kong protests: Authorities to announce face mask ban

#59

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 5:45 PM UTC

thewholeview wrote: post #44

calderarrow wrote: post #25

During the American revolutionary war, France was a tremendous ally and instrumental to the colonies’ secession from Britain. The Marquis de Lafayette came over to fight for us, without pay, in his early 20s, forgoing his family’s desires and aristocratic opportunities. His family was so opposed to him going to the colonies, that local governments were involved in finding and preventing him from boarding ships. He ev…

While I have full respect for you to preach what you believe in, I'd like to urge the consideration for a detachment of promotion for democracy with regards to morality. Whichever mode of governance is simple a practice of value proposition that a particular regime sees as fit for their particular regional control/political reign. While democracy has its ostensible upsides, is such a protest at length really what's o…

[deleted]

Re: Hong Kong protests: Authorities to announce face mask ban

#60

Post by thewholeview » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 5:45 PM UTC

kmonsen wrote: post #52

thewholeview wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I have full respect for you to preach what you believe in, I'd like to urge the consideration for a detachment of promotion for democracy with regards to morality. Whichever mode of governance is simple a practice of value proposition that a particular regime sees as fit for their particular regional control/political reign. While democracy has its ostensible upsides, is such a protest at length really what's o…

I think people of HK have tried other more peaceful approaches in the past and have received nothing in return from Beijing. Do you have any propositions of what citizens of HK, or China, can do to get more freedoms like freedom of speech or from random arrests on trumped up charges which is how the current situation started? I don't think anyone in HK want to be in this situation but for many they see it as a last c…

I think the concept of "freedom of speech" is highly subjective. If you go to China you would find very little consideration for a lack of freedom of speech aside from a few radicals whose mission is to cause turbulence to the existing regime.

In Beijing, you can walk in many taxis and hear the driver blabber on to no end regarding the state of existence in China and state defamatory words regarding the Communist, the past, or the current presidency.

In contrast, in America I often find myself in fear of coming forth and stating any merit that I thought of the potential Trump presidency, and the now presidency. In professional careers I'd fear a sense of being seen as a "demoral" person and I would fear for silent retaliation.

Propaganda and ideology come hand in hand, I certainly do not disregard Chinese propaganda, but likewise I am no different to the narrative on China's own political structure that's becoming ever stronger in the West since the uprising of China.

On the other hand, what is true "freedom of speech"? The narrative has been sounding more and more to me like a "freedom to uprise and overthrow the government". Due to my limited existence in the world, I can't claim merit or demerit to such ideal. But I am simply no fan of chaos caused due to the act of "trying to overthrow a government to seek ideal in the face of perceived oppression", especially when an entire region is almost shut down and hurt for many months.