Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Cryptocurrency Startup School

events.a16z.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 160 posts

Re: Cryptocurrency Startup School

#81

Post by Nursie »

biolurker1 wrote: post #80
Nursie wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I personally see it inevitable that everything in banking/finance will move to a decentralized model, with smart contracts as a driving force, because of autonomy. People don't want autonomy. I don't want to be my own bank. My bank is insured, they are secure, they provide me with a ton of services, and there is an identifiable party to go to if it all goes wrong, or if liability needs to be established. This idea…

> I don't want to be my own bank. Try living in Cuba, Venezuela, African countries, China etc etc. Actually except from the so called developed countries, people really don't want banks because it's unlike anything you are used to. So the reasoning that in USA we don't need asset sovereignity because the banks are not controlled by some crazy dictator maniacs holds only in USA, Canada, Europe, Japan and Australia mor…

I believe that in a lot of places where the banking system is less developed, systems like M-Pesa serve the unbanked really quite well.

I also believe that "look, Venezuela" is just the latest in a bunch of straws the cryptocurrency community is grasping at on its way to irrelevance, and very much doubt that on the ground cryptocurrency is helping or ever could help.

Re: Cryptocurrency Startup School

#83

Post by arcticbull »

krzkaczor wrote: post #17
egloo wrote: post #2

A startup school for a singular technical solution that has now gone years without any demonstrable killer app and which faces immense scaling and regulatory hurdles seems like putting the cart well before the horse here. I very much doubt that the key roadblock to realizing the crypto dream has been the lack of availability of a startup school around it.

I work in crypto space myself and I can tell that this space is really interesting. Both technical and business challenges are quite unique. Here's just a quick recap of different, new business models https://medium.com/abridged-io/web3-business-models-in-the-w... IMO things like DeFi are finally a good use case for blockchain. So yeah, I think this a good idea to create a startup school focused on new, different are…

...a list of new business models zero of which have shown an iota (pardon the pun) of traction in a decade. I feel the list of crazy startup ideas circulating on r/wallstreetbets is as valuable.

The technical and scaling problems are all self imposed due to leveraging a woefully inadequate storage mechanism. It’s basically coal-powered banking.

Re: Cryptocurrency Startup School

#84

Post by lacker »

arcticbull wrote: post #83
krzkaczor wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work in crypto space myself and I can tell that this space is really interesting. Both technical and business challenges are quite unique. Here's just a quick recap of different, new business models https://medium.com/abridged-io/web3-business-models-in-the-w... IMO things like DeFi are finally a good use case for blockchain. So yeah, I think this a good idea to create a startup school focused on new, different are…

...a list of new business models zero of which have shown an iota (pardon the pun) of traction in a decade. I feel the list of crazy startup ideas circulating on r/wallstreetbets is as valuable. The technical and scaling problems are all self imposed due to leveraging a woefully inadequate storage mechanism. It’s basically coal-powered banking.

...a list of new business models zero of which have shown an iota (pardon the pun) of traction in a decade.

Bitcoin is worth $140 billion. What are you waiting for, before you believe it has traction?

Re: Cryptocurrency Startup School

#85

Post by lawn »

paulgb wrote: post #52
electic wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There will never be a singular killer app for crypto. Just like there isn't a killer app for USD or Gold. It is the aggregate adoption, as a transfer of value, across numerous use cases that makes any currency valued.

How about a lower bar, then: has blockchain/crypto tech ever been demonstrated to be economically viable for anything besides a store of value? There has been a ton of hype about e.g. Cryptokitties but it seems to follow a hype and bust cycle every single time.

Let me have a go then:

1. A way for businesses that cannot get a bank account to accept digital payments. Think porn sites or marijuana stores.

2. It's used on darknet markets for obvious reasons.

3. You can use it to pay for things even without a bank account.

4. Send money to anyone from anywhere.

5. It can be used as a decentralized timestamping service[0].

6. Lower fees than other digital payments (credit cards take 1-4% fee per transaction, plus other costs).

Cryptokitties is just like Beanie Babies and in my opinion not very interesting.

[0]: https://whycryptocurrencies.com/timestamping_service.html

Re: Cryptocurrency Startup School

#86

Post by arcticbull »

theboywho wrote: post #23
egloo wrote: post #2

A startup school for a singular technical solution that has now gone years without any demonstrable killer app and which faces immense scaling and regulatory hurdles seems like putting the cart well before the horse here. I very much doubt that the key roadblock to realizing the crypto dream has been the lack of availability of a startup school around it.

One of Blockchain's killer apps is...Bitcoin. There is no need to talk about "the crypto dream", people are using what they find useful (coinbase is currently #5 top YC company), and I personally see it inevitable that everything in banking/finance will move to a decentralized model, with smart contracts as a driving force, because of autonomy. Humans haven't really evolved much from say other Apes (or many more othe…

Centralization and trust are massive efficiencies as demonstrated by the sheer unparalleled inefficiency of proof of work chains. It blows my mind that hipsters refuse to use single-use straws and try and pay with bitcoin which yields thousands of times as much CO2 in the atmosphere as the straw.

1 bitcoin transaction is 607kWh (is 288kgCO2 and 85g of ewaste). That’s enough spent power to drive a Tesla from SF to San Jose, round trip. Twice. 20 days power consumption for the average US home. At that rate you may as well take physical dollars and drive them to San Jose.

Re: Cryptocurrency Startup School

#87

Post by hbmprime »

simias wrote: post #43
fcolas wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right that timing is key, however: >> Crypto = Trust (100%) which is why (in my viewpoint) it matters a great deal, and there's just no way back. Trust is required for monetary exchange, but not only. It also matters where very strong guarantees are needed, which is everywhere, e.g., when setting up contracts or when making statements (expert or regulated) about a product, service, or a status. Trust matters b…

>It also matters where very strong guarantees are needed, which is everywhere, e.g., when setting up contracts or when making statements (expert or regulated) about a product, service, or a status. 10+ years later and we're still having this discussion. Yes, blockchain technologies manage to achieve a trust-less consensus about "a product, service or a status" but only if all the parameters can be encoded in the bloc…

You're absolutely correct that the single largest barrier to mainstream crypto apps is a trustworthy oracle and that it is an extremely difficult problem to solve.

Chainlink is a decentralized oracle framework that recently went mainnet that solves (almost) every issue regarding trustless external data. API providers can sell their data to be utilized as inputs to smart contracts. Large collections of nodes then aggregate this data to maintain decentralization. There are several mechanisms in place to prevent gaming the network (staking collateral, penalties, reputation). The one issue it does not solve is if few sources for the data actually exist. In that scenario, it does not matter if 2 or 200 nodes are reporting the data, as the API itself may provide bad data to the nodes. However, even in this scenario, it would be trivial to assign blame to the API operator, as all nodes would collectively report bad data.

I would encourage you to check out their solution. I'm shilling, but Chainlink is a product that actually works.

Re: Cryptocurrency Startup School

#88

Post by arcticbull »

lacker wrote: post #84
arcticbull wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...a list of new business models zero of which have shown an iota (pardon the pun) of traction in a decade. I feel the list of crazy startup ideas circulating on r/wallstreetbets is as valuable. The technical and scaling problems are all self imposed due to leveraging a woefully inadequate storage mechanism. It’s basically coal-powered banking.

...a list of new business models zero of which have shown an iota (pardon the pun) of traction in a decade. Bitcoin is worth $140 billion. What are you waiting for, before you believe it has traction?

Market cap is not worth for a currency. There’s incredibly limited liquidity in the market relative to the market cap, and even the ETF trying to list recently showed 95% of all volume in the crypto space was fake.

Try and pull a few million dollars worth out and watch what happens. It did just plunge 33% on some small withdrawals, what exactly are you waiting for?

Re: Cryptocurrency Startup School

#89

Post by vertoc »

lacker wrote: post #84
arcticbull wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...a list of new business models zero of which have shown an iota (pardon the pun) of traction in a decade. I feel the list of crazy startup ideas circulating on r/wallstreetbets is as valuable. The technical and scaling problems are all self imposed due to leveraging a woefully inadequate storage mechanism. It’s basically coal-powered banking.

...a list of new business models zero of which have shown an iota (pardon the pun) of traction in a decade. Bitcoin is worth $140 billion. What are you waiting for, before you believe it has traction?

I'm on neither side of this debate, but citing how much Bitcoin is worth seems like a really weak argument in favor of traction.

I think a more convincing argument would be citing # of transactions or use cases (store of value, cheaper way of sending large amount of money or money internationally, etc.)

Re: Cryptocurrency Startup School

#90

Post by nostrademons »

rapsey wrote: post #20
krzkaczor wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work in crypto space myself and I can tell that this space is really interesting. Both technical and business challenges are quite unique. Here's just a quick recap of different, new business models https://medium.com/abridged-io/web3-business-models-in-the-w... IMO things like DeFi are finally a good use case for blockchain. So yeah, I think this a good idea to create a startup school focused on new, different are…

No one ever said the space is not interesting. It's just goes against human nature and how the world operates. The difference between a failed idea and a successful one is very often simply timing. Things that were complete nonsense in the dot com bubble are billion dollar businesses now. The crypto space is not for this time (imo).

> It's just goes against human nature and how the world operates.

Is that actually true? Or just true for a certain subset of humans?

Human nature isn't actually fixed and immutable. Each generation redefines the world with culture, practices, and institutions that seem totally natural given the environment they grew up in. I remember my mom insisting that I wear a suit to every interviewer and send thank-you notes to every interviewer; I learned later that the former gets you dinged for culture fit at most Silicon Valley companies, and the latter seems creepy. Conversely, several practices that were decried as "entitled Millenials!" when I first entered the workforce, like expecting to change jobs every couple years or expecting your employer to provide lunch, are now fairly standard practice, and the economy has shifted to embrace that new business culture.

When I talk to people who graduated college after 2013, the vast majority of them believe that crypto & DeFi are right, natural, and will inevitably take over the global financial system.

Right now, that's 5 years of working people, in junior positions, vs. 40 years of people in senior positions who think that crypto is an affront to the natural order of things. This site is largely Gen-Xers and Xennials who are deeply embedded in the previous wave (the WWW) of remaking how the economy works; I doubt most of us have close personal friendships with people who graduated college in the last 5 years (I only hear about this through friends' younger siblings, recent alumni of my alma mater, and junior employees hired by my startup-founder friends - that and explicitly seeking it out on Reddit).

But if you look at this situation demographically, change is inevitable for the simple reason that we're going to stop working and die before they are. And even something that appeals only to 18-28 year olds still has the ability to support several billion dollar markets, given that this is the age group whose consumer preferences are still malleable with 50+ years of consumption ahead of them.

Post reply on HN