A rise in vegetarian options leads customers to embrace meat-free meals • Hacker News Board

Re: A rise in vegetarian options leads customers to embrace meat-free meals

#131

Post by seanwilson » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 3:33 PM UTC

jedimastert wrote: post #91

_Microft wrote: post #8

The dish mentioned sounds far better than what is usually served as vegetarian food at canteens and restaurants. Quite often they offer just a compilation of side-dishes to have something vegetarian on their menu. (Dumblings with red cabbage and - wait for it - gravy from roasting meat is a widespread menu offer for vegetarians in southern Germany. Not sure if it counts as vegetarian option though). Once people notic…

POV: Omnivore with a (previously) vegetarian spouse. We generally ate veg @ home One of my biggest issues with modern veg diets is all of the veg food trying to masquerade as other food. Soy bacon does not taste like, or taste as good as, real bacon. Tofu and Boca burgers do not taste like actual meat. But tofu and the like can taste amazing on its own merit . It's an ingredient with it's own flavors and textures, so…

> One of my biggest issues with modern veg diets is all of the veg food trying to masquerade as other food.

Look at them as a way to help people slowly transition their taste buds to a new diet and to help people easily cook meals that both vegans and non-vegans would eat.

Re: A rise in vegetarian options leads customers to embrace meat-free meals

#132

Post by superpermutat0r » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 3:34 PM UTC

gridlockd wrote: post #77

superpermutat0r wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like the taste of meat, I like the taste of eggs, texture of yogurt, I like the taste of practically all foods. I do not like the fact that cow, chicken, pig, dog, have to die for my tastebuds to feel nice. Given that I like the tastes I like and do not want to give them up, I'll rather be calm and eat something that tastes like meat but there's no death of an animal. That's it. Could I live without veggie sausages…

> I do not like the fact that cow, chicken, pig, dog, have to die for my tastebuds to feel nice. Not only do they have to die, they also have to live . If everyone went vegan, those animals would never have existed. If the standards of living for the average farm animal were really good, would that be worse than them having never existed?

The only meat I'd eat is from an animal, living in excellent conditions, dying of old age. If the species was ever bred, it must have been bred exclusively for health and fitness, not for higher yield of flesh or milk. If it was not bred, the reproduction should have no human intervention.

Everything else life related should not have human intervention, if it does not improve upon the quality of life.

Although, this view is pretty idyllic and probably unattainable or not profitable.

Re: A rise in vegetarian options leads customers to embrace meat-free meals

#133

Post by whenchamenia » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 3:35 PM UTC

seanwilson wrote: post #131

jedimastert wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

POV: Omnivore with a (previously) vegetarian spouse. We generally ate veg @ home One of my biggest issues with modern veg diets is all of the veg food trying to masquerade as other food. Soy bacon does not taste like, or taste as good as, real bacon. Tofu and Boca burgers do not taste like actual meat. But tofu and the like can taste amazing on its own merit . It's an ingredient with it's own flavors and textures, so…

> One of my biggest issues with modern veg diets is all of the veg food trying to masquerade as other food. Look at them as a way to help people slowly transition their taste buds to a new diet and to help people easily cook meals that both vegans and non-vegans would eat.

But its always worse than what it emulates. If you want to promote veggies, maybe start with a good dish? I understand familiarity is a thing, but so is taste.

Re: A rise in vegetarian options leads customers to embrace meat-free meals

#134

Post by ip26 » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 3:36 PM UTC

merpnderp wrote: post #97

elektor wrote: post #13

Speaking from personal experience, I've been eating a lot more plant-based meals now that Beyond and Impossible Beef are available in grocery stores. I wouldn't say I'm completely vegetarian but I'm 60% there.

I was so excited about the Impossible Burger at Burger King. But I made the mistake of ordering it and a regular Whopper for comparison. I tried the Impossible Burger and thought wow, this is amazingly delicious. Then I took a bite of a Whopper and realized that the Impossible Burger will never be able to replace this. You could make the world's best vegetarian burger and some discount meat from the local dollar stor…

the Impossible Burger will never be able to replace this

Impossible Foods is only 8 years old, and look how far they've already come.

Re: A rise in vegetarian options leads customers to embrace meat-free meals

#135

Post by deadmetheny » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 3:36 PM UTC

flyGuyOnTheSly wrote: post #41

_Microft wrote: post #8

The dish mentioned sounds far better than what is usually served as vegetarian food at canteens and restaurants. Quite often they offer just a compilation of side-dishes to have something vegetarian on their menu. (Dumblings with red cabbage and - wait for it - gravy from roasting meat is a widespread menu offer for vegetarians in southern Germany. Not sure if it counts as vegetarian option though). Once people notic…

Vegetarian food can be delicious or disgusting, just as meat can be. I wouldn't salivate over sitting down to a dinner of boiled stew beef cubes without any seasoning at all... Which is pretty much the equivalent of boiled rice and broccoli. (Standard vegetarian fare at a lot of cafeterias in North America). I noticed something yesterday... Capitalistic enterprises really shit on vegetarians for some reason, and I ca…

>Capitalistic enterprises really shit on vegetarians for some reason, and I can't quite figure out why.

What? That's nonsense. You'd be a fool to have nothing suitable for vegetarians on your menu these days, there's quite a lot of them out and about anymore.

>The local pizza place put a flyer in my mailbox... they have plant based pizza now with cauliflower based crusts... vegetarian peperoni and vegan cheese... two servings of vegetables in the crust alone etc etc...That's great, but why does it cost twice as much as all of the other pizzas on offer?

I own a food service establishment and price is always determined first and foremost by two things: food cost and labour cost. That sort of pizza would be a right pain to make labour-wise, and vegan cheese is very expensive (not to mention dreadfully bad, but I digress). That pizza costing twice as much as anything else sounds a bit on the extreme side but not too terribly out of line, especially if it's a rare order (I suspect it likely is).

>I live in Canada, btw.

Sorry to hear that, mate ;)

Re: A rise in vegetarian options leads customers to embrace meat-free meals

#136

Post by mtalantikite » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 3:37 PM UTC

belorn wrote: post #113

_Microft wrote: post #8

The dish mentioned sounds far better than what is usually served as vegetarian food at canteens and restaurants. Quite often they offer just a compilation of side-dishes to have something vegetarian on their menu. (Dumblings with red cabbage and - wait for it - gravy from roasting meat is a widespread menu offer for vegetarians in southern Germany. Not sure if it counts as vegetarian option though). Once people notic…

In my experience, and in particular with conference food, vegetarian dishes has its own food culture and tastes. To be specific they usually do not include any pepper, garlic, chili, or herbs like parsley, sage, rosemary, thyme and cumin. Salt and umami is also often missing. Instead the cooks tries to create tastes through using different grains, seeds, fruits, salads and vegetables. Food without meat does not have…

Vegetarian in NYC here. There are plenty of spices used in vegetarian food. Maybe non-veg chefs in the west don’t know how to spice food, but there are tons of spices used in veg dishes from all over the world. Typically I can judge how a restaurant is going to be if I look at the veg options on a menu — good chefs certainly know how to use spices and how to cook vegetables.

Re: A rise in vegetarian options leads customers to embrace meat-free meals

#137

Post by odyssey7 » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 3:37 PM UTC

jedimastert wrote: post #91

_Microft wrote: post #8

The dish mentioned sounds far better than what is usually served as vegetarian food at canteens and restaurants. Quite often they offer just a compilation of side-dishes to have something vegetarian on their menu. (Dumblings with red cabbage and - wait for it - gravy from roasting meat is a widespread menu offer for vegetarians in southern Germany. Not sure if it counts as vegetarian option though). Once people notic…

POV: Omnivore with a (previously) vegetarian spouse. We generally ate veg @ home One of my biggest issues with modern veg diets is all of the veg food trying to masquerade as other food. Soy bacon does not taste like, or taste as good as, real bacon. Tofu and Boca burgers do not taste like actual meat. But tofu and the like can taste amazing on its own merit . It's an ingredient with it's own flavors and textures, so…

An influential book for me was Arnold Schoenberg's Theory of Harmony. It's half harmonic theory and half a manifesto on art. In a lengthy footnote he advises using materials to their advantages, rather than forcing them to do something they weren't meant to do. I've seen this sentiment mentioned in other places as well.

As a vegetarian, I've felt this was wonderfully applicable. There's so many great flavors and textures you can achieve with plants, but a lot of vegetarian cook books and pre-made food aim to mimic meat-based dishes instead of embracing more natural outcomes of these different materials.

Re: A rise in vegetarian options leads customers to embrace meat-free meals

#138

Post by benj111 » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 3:37 PM UTC

puranjay wrote: post #104

_Microft wrote: post #8

The dish mentioned sounds far better than what is usually served as vegetarian food at canteens and restaurants. Quite often they offer just a compilation of side-dishes to have something vegetarian on their menu. (Dumblings with red cabbage and - wait for it - gravy from roasting meat is a widespread menu offer for vegetarians in southern Germany. Not sure if it counts as vegetarian option though). Once people notic…

Western cuisine seems to fundamentally misunderstand vegetables. Methinks it was partly the unavailability of spices, and partly the easy availability of meat. Meat is like a cheat code when you're cooking. A good cut of meat needs a little more than some salt and fat to taste good. With vegetables, you're forced to be more inventive. Take okra for instance. In India, its a favorite vegetable. Saute it with some Indi…

Not so much the west in general, Southern Europe do nice things with veg.

Cant speak for other countries, but in the UK it seems to have been a combination of servants getting too expensive for middle class families, so House wives, who didn't previously need to cook, now suddenly having to learn (A special mention goes out to Mrs Beeton for teaching people to overcook things), and rationing and general shortages during the world wars.

Re: A rise in vegetarian options leads customers to embrace meat-free meals

#139

Post by Djvacto » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 3:39 PM UTC

screye wrote: post #80

_Microft wrote: post #8

The dish mentioned sounds far better than what is usually served as vegetarian food at canteens and restaurants. Quite often they offer just a compilation of side-dishes to have something vegetarian on their menu. (Dumblings with red cabbage and - wait for it - gravy from roasting meat is a widespread menu offer for vegetarians in southern Germany. Not sure if it counts as vegetarian option though). Once people notic…

Even vegan restaurants hardly sell good food. In their attempt to make a shoddy substitute for meat dishes, they completely butcher the innate capabilities of the vegetables. I know that sounds a bit snooty, but western cuisines simply do not lend themselves well to vegetarian ingredients. India is obviously the most familiar with good veg food, but most cuisines in Asia have good vegetarian offerings. Everything fro…

Counter-anecdote: I have a couple of vegan restaurants near me which make dishes that are definitely imitative of meat-based dishes, but are amazing and I would rate as one of the top restaurants including all vegan or non-vegan restaurants.

One does Southern Kitchen/Soul Food type stuff, and the other is turkish/middle-eastern cuisine.

Not trying to detract from any points about Indian and other Asian cuisines being phenomenal for veggie dishes, just that it's not a rule that western cuisine does not lend itself well to vegetarian ingredients, but more that it's just not as developed here.

Re: A rise in vegetarian options leads customers to embrace meat-free meals

#140

Post by 4ad » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 3:41 PM UTC

tom_mellior wrote: post #109

4ad wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are downvoted for no reason. Not only that college kids are not representative for the entire population, but most importantly college kids tend not to have money. The article says: > variables that influenced dining choices included the relative prices of vegetarian and non-vegetarian options

> most importantly college kids tend not to have money But if that's a very important factor and vegetarian was cheapest, anyone strapped for cash would always have chosen the vegetarian option even before this experiment, so nothing would change. Also, from the actual abstract ( https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2019/09/24/1907207116 ): "Linking sales data to participants’ previous meal purchases revealed that the…

You are assuming they would always chose the cheapest, not the best (by some criteria) they could afford. If suddently the sole meat option is more expensive than yesterdays cheaper meat, that might be too expensive for them, so they are forced onto the cheaper vegetarian options that they could avoid the day before.