United Kingdom Budget Visualization • Hacker News Board

Re: United Kingdom Budget Visualization

#91

Post by goodcanadian » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 12:43 PM UTC

fergie wrote: post #74

gutnor wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's actually a good point and well said ... 3 years ago. However, today you cannot make that argument with a straight face when Boris is a PM with a very weak democratic mandate, actively undermining the democratically elected Parliament, doubling down on the lies made by the campaigns, pushing for highly damaging (according to the Government own assessment) economic measure. From the Cambridge Analytica scandal w…

(Lets call him "Johnson". "Boris" is either patronising or affectionate, and neither is appropriate for a head of state.) No Conservative government has served an entire term with an outright majority since Thatcher in the 1980s. Johnson is in a sense "unelected", but his premiership is no less legitimate than that of Cameron or Major. Like it or not, Johnson was the "biggest" voice behind the successful Brexit campa…

Boris Johnson is not head of state. He is head of government

Re: United Kingdom Budget Visualization

#92

Post by gutnor » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 12:43 PM UTC

fergie wrote: post #74

gutnor wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's actually a good point and well said ... 3 years ago. However, today you cannot make that argument with a straight face when Boris is a PM with a very weak democratic mandate, actively undermining the democratically elected Parliament, doubling down on the lies made by the campaigns, pushing for highly damaging (according to the Government own assessment) economic measure. From the Cambridge Analytica scandal w…

(Lets call him "Johnson". "Boris" is either patronising or affectionate, and neither is appropriate for a head of state.) No Conservative government has served an entire term with an outright majority since Thatcher in the 1980s. Johnson is in a sense "unelected", but his premiership is no less legitimate than that of Cameron or Major. Like it or not, Johnson was the "biggest" voice behind the successful Brexit campa…

Brexit is not a threat to democracy in the absolute sense.

It is a threat to democracy because, after 3 years, we now know that it is a power wrestling within the ruling class, for the exclusive benefit of the ruling class. All the good reasons you may have had before and right after the referendum are irrelevant now. What Brexit is and what it is used to do is clear for all to see, and it is not a democratic excercise.

To take a less loaded example: that's like sending money to a charity "Food for Africa Children" and realising 3 years after, your money is instead funnelled into buying a super yatcht for some billionaire somewhere.

Feeding Africa Children is good, giving money to charity is good but you can no longer make the argument that "Food for Africa Children" is good, and you can no longer claim any moral high ground if you continue to support that organisation.

Re: United Kingdom Budget Visualization

#93

Post by NeedMoreTea » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 12:44 PM UTC

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #63

NeedMoreTea wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems low. That office was formerly known as the Welsh Office. I'm not sure how it separates from or overlaps with the Welsh Assembly, who don't have tax raising powers like Scotland. Presumably spends on a number of Welsh schemes, infrastructure, projects, roads etc.

WAG have had tax raising powers since April 2018, fwiw.

Thanks, somehow I'd missed that. Didn't think it had gone beyond being discussed.

Re: United Kingdom Budget Visualization

#94

Post by bloak » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 12:45 PM UTC

fergie wrote: post #74

gutnor wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's actually a good point and well said ... 3 years ago. However, today you cannot make that argument with a straight face when Boris is a PM with a very weak democratic mandate, actively undermining the democratically elected Parliament, doubling down on the lies made by the campaigns, pushing for highly damaging (according to the Government own assessment) economic measure. From the Cambridge Analytica scandal w…

(Lets call him "Johnson". "Boris" is either patronising or affectionate, and neither is appropriate for a head of state.) No Conservative government has served an entire term with an outright majority since Thatcher in the 1980s. Johnson is in a sense "unelected", but his premiership is no less legitimate than that of Cameron or Major. Like it or not, Johnson was the "biggest" voice behind the successful Brexit campa…

"BoJo" Borisconi is not a head of state. Since we haven't abolished the monarchy, the head of state is Brenda.

Re: United Kingdom Budget Visualization

#95

Post by phs318u » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 12:45 PM UTC

fergie wrote: post #74

gutnor wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's actually a good point and well said ... 3 years ago. However, today you cannot make that argument with a straight face when Boris is a PM with a very weak democratic mandate, actively undermining the democratically elected Parliament, doubling down on the lies made by the campaigns, pushing for highly damaging (according to the Government own assessment) economic measure. From the Cambridge Analytica scandal w…

(Lets call him "Johnson". "Boris" is either patronising or affectionate, and neither is appropriate for a head of state.) No Conservative government has served an entire term with an outright majority since Thatcher in the 1980s. Johnson is in a sense "unelected", but his premiership is no less legitimate than that of Cameron or Major. Like it or not, Johnson was the "biggest" voice behind the successful Brexit campa…

> Brexit is exactly what democracy looks like at its best

Both democracies and markets assume informed participants for their proper functioning. If the participants are not informed or misinformed then both democracies and markets can be gamed by those “in the know” at the expense of the misinformed.

Re: United Kingdom Budget Visualization

#96

Post by Jedd » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 12:51 PM UTC

fergie wrote: post #74

gutnor wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's actually a good point and well said ... 3 years ago. However, today you cannot make that argument with a straight face when Boris is a PM with a very weak democratic mandate, actively undermining the democratically elected Parliament, doubling down on the lies made by the campaigns, pushing for highly damaging (according to the Government own assessment) economic measure. From the Cambridge Analytica scandal w…

(Lets call him "Johnson". "Boris" is either patronising or affectionate, and neither is appropriate for a head of state.) No Conservative government has served an entire term with an outright majority since Thatcher in the 1980s. Johnson is in a sense "unelected", but his premiership is no less legitimate than that of Cameron or Major. Like it or not, Johnson was the "biggest" voice behind the successful Brexit campa…

> Like it or not, Johnson was the "biggest" voice behind the successful Brexit campaign ...

This isn't true either. Nigel Farage likely wins that unenviable title.

> ... and it is therefore appropriate that he is tasked with making Brexit happen ...

That doesn't necessarily follow. His reasons for supporting / promoting Brexit have been shown to be based on falsehoods.

> ... and taking responsibility for its success or failure.

I appreciate your optimism that there remains any doubt about which of those it will be.

It's clear that this guy - Boris, Johnson, or Boris Johnson if you prefer - has not and will not take responsibility for his actions.

Claims of 'Brexit == democracy at its best' are massively misguided - they presuppose that the voters were not outright lied to (they were).

Re: United Kingdom Budget Visualization

#97

Post by Xelbair » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 12:51 PM UTC

ackshually wrote: post #22

frobozz wrote: post #5

There, at the top of "Other Expenditures", Slightly smaller than running the Office of the Secretary of State for Wales. That is what's governing the entire political agenda right now. That's the amount of money stuck on the side of a bus with the suggestion that we could spend it on the NHS instead

I didn't vote leave because of the money. I voted leave because I was dubious about the control the elected and unelected officials and secretaries in brussels had over British politics, and the rats nest of well paid jobs with crazy benefits waiting for british politicians in brussels when they retire from british politics, so long as they play nice with the EU and go along with the will of the government in Brussel…

>I voted leave because I was dubious about the control the elected and unelected officials and secretaries in brussels had over British politics, and the rats nest of well paid jobs with crazy benefits waiting for british politicians in brussels when they retire from british politics, so long as they play nice with the EU and go along with the will of the government in Brussels.

Have you considered that after Brexit for UK to trade and work with Europe(which is vital for UK economy) they would still need to follow all the rules of EU and have no say about those rules? Not to mention that hard Brexit is impossible without giving North Ireland to Republic of Ireland.

Did you notice that whole Brexit got traction when the deadline set by EU for UK to implement anti-tax evasion measures that target UK overseas territories?

I honestly loathe EU, i absolutely hate huge parts of it, it is a bureaucratic Kafkaesque nightmare, that reminds me of my country under soviet occupation(The part i hate the most are unelected officials with basically minimal oversight). Yet it is still better for my country to be "in" than "out".

From outside perspective it looks like Leavers want to have every benefit of staying in EU(trade deal with EU that mirrors current rules), Northern Ireland and every benefit of leaving EU(hard border). It isn't feasible.

Nevertheless i respect your decision - it is your vote, cast in favour of what you think was the best for the country, what i loathe the most in democracy(which actually turns it into a farce - a popularity contest instead of merit based one) are people voting just because something is popular.

Re: United Kingdom Budget Visualization

#98

Post by jsmith99 » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 12:52 PM UTC

alecco wrote: post #87

jsmith99 wrote: post #83

The National Audit Office also publish a visualisation of the Whole of Government Accounts (best viewed on desktop) https://www.nao.org.uk/other/whole-of-government-accounts-20... The accounts themselves are very readable https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/whole-of-governme...

In spite of a mostly balanced budget, the growth of non-current liabilites is accelerating. I wonder if this just is due to an aging population and it's effect in pensions or if there are other factors. https://www.populationpyramid.net/united-kingdom/2017/

Not sure if this is the cause, but non current liabilities are very sensitive to changes in discount rates used to calculate the present value of future expenditure. The Nuclear Decommissioning provision, for example includes costs projected until 2137. In the last accounts it went up 76bn just from changing the discount rate.

Re: United Kingdom Budget Visualization

#99

Post by hardlianotion » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 12:53 PM UTC

barryfandango wrote: post #38

hardlianotion wrote: post #9

That is a great idea. Understanding government expenditure on some level should be a fundamental part of a citizen's participation. I don't yet fully understand how to read it. It's not really clear to me what the difference in income and expenditure is - the impression the diagram gives me is other that income is balanced by expenditure, or that there is a budget surplus maybe. I think I recall that there is a budge…

Shameless plug colon my company does this for cities. http://burlington.openbook.questica.com/

looking ...

Re: United Kingdom Budget Visualization

#100

Post by 666lumberjack » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 12:55 PM UTC

alecco wrote: post #87

jsmith99 wrote: post #83

The National Audit Office also publish a visualisation of the Whole of Government Accounts (best viewed on desktop) https://www.nao.org.uk/other/whole-of-government-accounts-20... The accounts themselves are very readable https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/whole-of-governme...

In spite of a mostly balanced budget, the growth of non-current liabilites is accelerating. I wonder if this just is due to an aging population and it's effect in pensions or if there are other factors. https://www.populationpyramid.net/united-kingdom/2017/

UK state pensions obey the so-called 'Triple Lock' rule where they increase in payout yearly according to the greatest of: 1. the growth in national average earnings; 2. the growth in retail prices as measured by the Consumer Price Index; 3. 2.5 per cent.

This causes an additional increase in pension costs over time on top of the effect of the country's aging population and is a source of resentment among some young people.