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United Kingdom Budget Visualization

uk.wikibudgets.org

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Re: United Kingdom Budget Visualization

#81

Post by drcongo »

fergie wrote: post #74
gutnor wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's actually a good point and well said ... 3 years ago. However, today you cannot make that argument with a straight face when Boris is a PM with a very weak democratic mandate, actively undermining the democratically elected Parliament, doubling down on the lies made by the campaigns, pushing for highly damaging (according to the Government own assessment) economic measure. From the Cambridge Analytica scandal w…

(Lets call him "Johnson". "Boris" is either patronising or affectionate, and neither is appropriate for a head of state.) No Conservative government has served an entire term with an outright majority since Thatcher in the 1980s. Johnson is in a sense "unelected", but his premiership is no less legitimate than that of Cameron or Major. Like it or not, Johnson was the "biggest" voice behind the successful Brexit campa…

There is nothing about Brexit that is against the ruling class's best interests. They're the only ones who are actually going to benefit from it in the form of huge profits from shorting the pound and selling off public services. It's all outlined in Rees-Mogg snr's handbook on how to make millions out of the misery of the working class.

Re: United Kingdom Budget Visualization

#82

Post by jkoudys »

fergie wrote: post #74
gutnor wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's actually a good point and well said ... 3 years ago. However, today you cannot make that argument with a straight face when Boris is a PM with a very weak democratic mandate, actively undermining the democratically elected Parliament, doubling down on the lies made by the campaigns, pushing for highly damaging (according to the Government own assessment) economic measure. From the Cambridge Analytica scandal w…

(Lets call him "Johnson". "Boris" is either patronising or affectionate, and neither is appropriate for a head of state.) No Conservative government has served an entire term with an outright majority since Thatcher in the 1980s. Johnson is in a sense "unelected", but his premiership is no less legitimate than that of Cameron or Major. Like it or not, Johnson was the "biggest" voice behind the successful Brexit campa…

If we go back to the original data visualization, is that really what happened though? Especially on HN, I think we can all concede that decisions are only as good as the data they're based on. Can you honestly claim that the leave side's economic understanding matched the reality? Is it really "democratic" for the people to force action based on the carefully-crafted misinformation they've received?

Re: United Kingdom Budget Visualization

#83

Post by jsmith99 »

The National Audit Office also publish a visualisation of the Whole of Government Accounts (best viewed on desktop) https://www.nao.org.uk/other/whole-of-government-accounts-20...

The accounts themselves are very readable https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/whole-of-governme...

Re: United Kingdom Budget Visualization

#84

Post by nvarsj »

fergie wrote: post #74
gutnor wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's actually a good point and well said ... 3 years ago. However, today you cannot make that argument with a straight face when Boris is a PM with a very weak democratic mandate, actively undermining the democratically elected Parliament, doubling down on the lies made by the campaigns, pushing for highly damaging (according to the Government own assessment) economic measure. From the Cambridge Analytica scandal w…

(Lets call him "Johnson". "Boris" is either patronising or affectionate, and neither is appropriate for a head of state.) No Conservative government has served an entire term with an outright majority since Thatcher in the 1980s. Johnson is in a sense "unelected", but his premiership is no less legitimate than that of Cameron or Major. Like it or not, Johnson was the "biggest" voice behind the successful Brexit campa…

I’m not sure this is true. Cameron had a majority government after the 2015 election. Prior there was a coalition government which also held a majority. May lost the majority after the snap election and had to build a coalition with the DUP and others. In Johnson’s case he doesn’t have any majority at all. It’s a weird situation that only exists afaik because of the fixed term act, as the PM can no longer trigger an election when he loses the majority. The current situation is far from normal.

Re: United Kingdom Budget Visualization

#85

Post by MuffinFlavored »

lucb1e wrote: post #51
the-dude wrote: post #41

Dutch budget viz ( different ) : https://rijksfinancien.nl/visuele-begroting/2018/jv

Some things I found interesting: - We spend a billion on water management ("deltafonds"). I had no idea it took so much upkeep. I also like subsection "experiments" of 21 million euros. - 21 million still goes to "healthcare for resistance fighters and victims of world war 2", plus 246 million for pensions of the same group ( https://rijksfinancien.nl/visuele-begroting/2018/jv/u/volksg... ). We're still paying for th…

I see a section for €48b for national debt. I thought the Netherlands was one of the few countries to not have debt?

Re: United Kingdom Budget Visualization

#86

Post by jkoudys »

ackshually wrote: post #22
frobozz wrote: post #5

There, at the top of "Other Expenditures", Slightly smaller than running the Office of the Secretary of State for Wales. That is what's governing the entire political agenda right now. That's the amount of money stuck on the side of a bus with the suggestion that we could spend it on the NHS instead

I didn't vote leave because of the money. I voted leave because I was dubious about the control the elected and unelected officials and secretaries in brussels had over British politics, and the rats nest of well paid jobs with crazy benefits waiting for british politicians in brussels when they retire from british politics, so long as they play nice with the EU and go along with the will of the government in Brussel…

I'm as aggressively anti-Brexit as any Canadian could reasonably be, but I do find your point about the NHS bus to be very interesting. It's fascinating to take a look at what one political group's view of their opponent's core values and news are. It's a bit like when I read an article about what millenials are doing, and am perplexed to the point of questioning if I was really born between 1982 and 2000.

Re: United Kingdom Budget Visualization

#87

Post by alecco »

jsmith99 wrote: post #83

The National Audit Office also publish a visualisation of the Whole of Government Accounts (best viewed on desktop) https://www.nao.org.uk/other/whole-of-government-accounts-20... The accounts themselves are very readable https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/whole-of-governme...

In spite of a mostly balanced budget, the growth of non-current liabilites is accelerating. I wonder if this just is due to an aging population and it's effect in pensions or if there are other factors.

https://www.populationpyramid.net/united-kingdom/2017/

Re: United Kingdom Budget Visualization

#88

Post by Bjartr »

pjc50 wrote: post #68
quietbritishjim wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know Hacker News policy is to not talk about votes, but can we please be more vote friendly to this user, especially as they're new? I find it's very rare to see a Brexiteer in my usual bubble so I'm grateful to hear the opposing view. (At time of making this comment, the parent is greyed out from down votes.)

At this point, anyone who's still a Brexiteer has engaged in some extremely selective listening. There's no point in having a discussion with someone who won't seriously address the entirely likely problems of Brexit, both as a concept and how it is currently being done. (I mean, Brexiting to the status of Norway might at least have been feasible, but that's now a long way in the rear view mirror.)

There is always a point in having a discussion with someone, even when they are severely misinformed and blind to their own biases because neither of those makes their perspective void, just harder to understand. But gaining that understanding is the only road available to you that can lead to them changing their perspective. Additionally, no matter how much sense you make to yourself and how much nonsense the other individual appears to be spouting, the moment you dismiss even the possibility that you yourself are wrong and that they could have a valid point, albeit poorly articulated, is the moment you throw away the claimed high ground of being rational.

Re: United Kingdom Budget Visualization

#89

Post by Jedd »

fergie wrote: post #74
gutnor wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's actually a good point and well said ... 3 years ago. However, today you cannot make that argument with a straight face when Boris is a PM with a very weak democratic mandate, actively undermining the democratically elected Parliament, doubling down on the lies made by the campaigns, pushing for highly damaging (according to the Government own assessment) economic measure. From the Cambridge Analytica scandal w…

(Lets call him "Johnson". "Boris" is either patronising or affectionate, and neither is appropriate for a head of state.) No Conservative government has served an entire term with an outright majority since Thatcher in the 1980s. Johnson is in a sense "unelected", but his premiership is no less legitimate than that of Cameron or Major. Like it or not, Johnson was the "biggest" voice behind the successful Brexit campa…

> (Lets call him "Johnson". "Boris" is either patronising or affectionate, and neither is appropriate for a head of state.)

He had a brother and father in politics, Johnson is a very common surname, Boris unambiguously identifies him, and he's not head of state.

Re: United Kingdom Budget Visualization

#90

Post by NeedMoreTea »

nvarsj wrote: post #84
fergie wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(Lets call him "Johnson". "Boris" is either patronising or affectionate, and neither is appropriate for a head of state.) No Conservative government has served an entire term with an outright majority since Thatcher in the 1980s. Johnson is in a sense "unelected", but his premiership is no less legitimate than that of Cameron or Major. Like it or not, Johnson was the "biggest" voice behind the successful Brexit campa…

I’m not sure this is true. Cameron had a majority government after the 2015 election. Prior there was a coalition government which also held a majority. May lost the majority after the snap election and had to build a coalition with the DUP and others. In Johnson’s case he doesn’t have any majority at all. It’s a weird situation that only exists afaik because of the fixed term act, as the PM can no longer trigger an…

Correct, the Fixed Term Parliament act was supposed to cure a government supposedly "abusing democracy" by calling an election at their whim. Well at least that seemed to be the LibDem line during the coalition.

In requiring a super-majority, and a search for a second government first it's badly broken the system. As we can see, there is a government 20 odd votes short of a majority stuck there. Stuck there having lost every vote they've called. Stuck there because they are trying to evade the extension parliament voted for, that would take EU membership beyond an election.

I am intrigued though, that neither side has made calls to repeal the Fixed Term Parliament Act, despite it very clearly not being fit for purpose.

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