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Ask HN: Who Wants to Be Fired?

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Re: Ask HN: Who Wants to Be Fired?

#511

I'm the sole developer working on my current project, which is overhauling a massive DOS era application, as well as overhauling an early 2000s era CRM/business management tool, that almost all of our work happens through. Did I mention that the DOS application is a HIPAA billing application that must meet all HIPAA guidelines as well as write EDI X12 billing files? I'm very junior, been coding for ~5 years, 3 profes…

Giving a demanding task to a junior is usually how they improve and learn, but what you describe here is just a big pile of management incompetency. Escape.

Re: Ask HN: Who Wants to Be Fired?

#512

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe they needed or wanted a reason to fire them. If that’s the case, it was all ready to go on HR.

I mean it only happens in movies when an employee gets fired and immediately put his stuff in the box and leaves the building. In real life there are labor regulations that don't allow this, there is the notification period et cetera

Depends. Even in Germany the company can simply decide to get you physically out right now as long as they keep you on the pay roll for the legal notice period.

Re: Ask HN: Who Wants to Be Fired?

#513
post #346

I work in a factory and I see all of the problems my older coworkers have. Along with that I think the company wants to move the whole plant to Mexico so there is no long-term job security. I've learned programming in my spare time but when I've tried applying for jobs I didn't get a response, which I assume is because I don't have a degree. I've been trying to get back into university but I'm not sure that it will h…

I am in your situation. No longer work in a factory but still in a dead-end job. Have you considered trying to become a sysadmin instead? Everyone and their nan are trying to become programmers, but network engineering gets overlooked a lot. CCNA + maybe an AWS cert and you would easily find an entry-level role. GL.

Re: Ask HN: Who Wants to Be Fired?

#514

I hate all of my jobs. Computer programming just doesn't seem worth it for 100-120k. I could work an easier job for a better money/bullshit ratio. My therapist is concerned. So am I. What if I don't fit in anywhere? I'm extremely sensitive with a high EQ, am an INTP. People really like me, and I make fast friends and can run a room extremely effectively. I've always been "the funny guy." I'm absurdly driven A-type an…

Money/bullshit ratio made me chuckle.

I feel like I'm 5 years into what you are describing. From time to time I start to get that lost feeling too these days.

In my mind I have it mapped out that I only really have to do this another 8 or so years.

Then just go on whatever the hell journey seems the most interesting once finances are no longer the main priority.

But during that 8 year trek I struggle with "now that side projects and learning new tech are no longer fun by default, how do I make them fun because otherwise the fact that they completely consume 100% of my free time sometimes makes me mildly depressed."

Re: Ask HN: Who Wants to Be Fired?

#515

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that just seems weird though. for it to get to the point of a PIP being necessary, a lot has had to gone wrong until then. feels like it's a blunt instrument, used when usual communication has almost broken down. are expectations not normally discussed more informally in regular 1:1s already? i do know people who have successfully completed PIPs and stayed. but every person who's taken the PIP as a signal to look for…

> but even if the PIP itself is reasonable, being PIP'd is not. it's a symptom of an underlying issue of poor management and should be interpreted as such. That's a very broad statement but, whilst the sentiment is no doubt well-intentioned, it's also misguided. Sometimes no matter how much feedback you give, how directly you express it, or how many ways you say the same thing in your weekly 1:1s it just doesn't get…

i have worked at places that never used a PIP. they were fine. they did due diligence when hiring and helped employees grow. maybe i live in a diverse area, most people are socialized pretty well after university and a few years of employment. so disagree about never using them being a red flag. maybe at megacorp inc, when you're hiring thousands, it's a fact of life. with terms like "unregrettable [sic] attrition", you'll forgive me for being cynical.

none of the PIPs i've seen have been reasonable, but small sample size. i have also luckily never been on the receiving end, only observing from afar. hell, sometimes idiot managers have put their best, most helpful employees on a PIP because they're... spending a lot of time helping other members of their team! so their individual performance goes down, but the team performance goes up. but when you view people as "individual contributors", you don't see that.

i'll happily agree with you on "a strong indicator of poor management is a failure to effectively manage performance", and go one further, a stronger indicator of poor management is a failure to effectively evaluate performance. unfortunately, that is exactly what makes PIPs so tricky. ignoring who's perspective is most "correct", there's still a divide in either performance expectations or perception. the better strategy is still to leave, not see the PIP through. which makes PIPs a good signal for "you're about to be fired", but a bad signal for "we disagree on performance", simply because that difference in perspective exists. putting it on paper is again not necessarily helping the employee. if "it just doesn't get through", is a PIP going to change that? if they aren't performing, if "it just doesn't get through", why not fire them? a possible answer: passive aggressiveness ("work with an employee to correct performance issues") and leave a paper trail aka. ass-covering ("the needed improvement doesn't occur").

but look, i'm not a manager, and don't want to be. could i fire someone? probably not. so is a PIP more humane? i think so. at the end of the day, it sounds like we both agree what it's for, just that you didn't agree with my phrasing. fair enough, although i still maintain from an employee perspective, assuming poor management if you get PIP'd once is a good plan. if you start seeing a pattern, then it's time to look in the mirror.

Re: Ask HN: Who Wants to Be Fired?

#516
I work remotely for a company in the Bay Area, doing mostly web development.

- Compensation is great.

- Few calls, very little micro-management.

- People I work with are great.

- They don't care about where I'm working from as long as the timezone isn't too far off.

Somehow I feel miserable. I can't quite explain it. I think it's because the work I do is boring and I've been doing it for a long time. I've been working fewer and fewer hours because I just can't get myself to work more. Also I don't really like being an employee, even if my relationship with my employer is great. I yearn for the ultimate freedom of owning my own business. I wish I could just be happy with my situation which is fantastic in every way.

Re: Ask HN: Who Wants to Be Fired?

#517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one of the reason I hate about PIP( performance improvement program). They set ridiculous goals for you in very short amount of time that nobody can possibly complete, then fire you on grounds of incompetence. A friend of mine who works in Facebook told me that an employee committed suicide due to the pressure of PIP. I suspect that guy was put into PIP due to poor rating (meet most), then was given a ridicul…

It's a sad story; but PIP is really the pink slip; you take it as an advance notice that you're going to be fired, and start looking for jobs. I've heard stories of people completing PIP programs successfully, but quite honestly, I don't get it. Once you got to that point, you're not a good fit to the team and/or they don't appreciate you. Makes no sense to stay. I could understand staying with the company & switchin…

PIP is usually the pink slip with 2 exceptions: 1. forced ranking. Even if you have the best team in the world, someone will be the last in that team. It can be avoided by rotations if the manager is smart enough. 2. Edge cases. I personally got via transfer a direct report already on a PIP from the previous manager. The short story: the previous manager is a moron (still working in the company, promoted since, failing upwards), that person is fine, working in the company 8 years later, mid-rated.

Re: Ask HN: Who Wants to Be Fired?

#518

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a sad story; but PIP is really the pink slip; you take it as an advance notice that you're going to be fired, and start looking for jobs. I've heard stories of people completing PIP programs successfully, but quite honestly, I don't get it. Once you got to that point, you're not a good fit to the team and/or they don't appreciate you. Makes no sense to stay. I could understand staying with the company & switchin…

One of the benefits of completing a PIP might also be signing off an internal transfer to a team with better fit. There could be times where it's worth going through it to get something better - as long as you're quite far detached from the previous team.

Almost nobody wants to receive via transfer someone with a PIP.

Re: Ask HN: Who Wants to Be Fired?

#519
On my current job most of the engineers have little engineering experience. Mostly we use modern tools but it's obvious that they had been set up once and since then nobody took care to maintain/tweak them. That makes the workflow very disorganized and sometimes tedious.

Decisions are often made very spontaneously, the process (Scrum) is often skipped and a lot of blaming happens even in meetings. One guy sometimes spontaneously walks up to others and starts loud arguments or blaming. Also there seems to be low trust among the department heads. Many tasks I work on the agreed upon solution changes back and forth.

It's a real mess, so getting fired would be the easiest option. But probably I'll just have to keep my eyes open for a new job and then switch.

Re: Ask HN: Who Wants to Be Fired?

#520

I work remotely for a company in the Bay Area, doing mostly web development. - Compensation is great. - Few calls, very little micro-management. - People I work with are great. - They don't care about where I'm working from as long as the timezone isn't too far off. Somehow I feel miserable. I can't quite explain it. I think it's because the work I do is boring and I've been doing it for a long time. I've been workin…

I get it. It’s lonely and if you’re not careful to leave the house it gets worse. The good news is you have plenty of time to work on a side project but that requires first improving mental state to have enough motivation.
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