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Iraq blocks Facebook, Twitter, WhatsApp, and Instagram, shuts down internet

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Re: Iraq blocks Facebook, Twitter, WhatsApp, and Instagram, shuts down internet

#241

Post by boomboomsubban »

SmirkingRevenge wrote: post #236
boomboomsubban wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There are strategic geopolitical reasons why the US would want more control in these areas. These are access to resources in event of war, and control of trade routes. Such a war would only benefit corporate interests, the people stand little to gain. And control of trade routes is only useful for war and corporate interests.

Corporations are resources, in and of themselves, however distasteful that may seem to swallow. They are value generating machines, and lower level resources (like oil) are their inputs. If they generate value efficiently enough, they start generating influence beyond their home nation's borders. If that carries on, influence turns into dependence. And so long as a nation is able to keep the corporate interests align…

>influence beyond their home nation's borders. And so long as a nation is able to keep the corporate interests aligned with their own - or at least more aligned than they are with anyone else - its probably a win for the corporation, the government and the people.

Often this "win" is a huge loss for the foreign groups involved. So still a losing situation in my eyes.

Re: Iraq blocks Facebook, Twitter, WhatsApp, and Instagram, shuts down internet

#242

Post by SmirkingRevenge »

boomboomsubban wrote: post #241
SmirkingRevenge wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Corporations are resources, in and of themselves, however distasteful that may seem to swallow. They are value generating machines, and lower level resources (like oil) are their inputs. If they generate value efficiently enough, they start generating influence beyond their home nation's borders. If that carries on, influence turns into dependence. And so long as a nation is able to keep the corporate interests align…

>influence beyond their home nation's borders. And so long as a nation is able to keep the corporate interests aligned with their own - or at least more aligned than they are with anyone else - its probably a win for the corporation, the government and the people. Often this "win" is a huge loss for the foreign groups involved. So still a losing situation in my eyes.

Sure, I agree in a sense. But nobody actually knows how to generate a true win, where we all live globally together in harmony and understanding - its all a big mess, and no one has the magic formula. At best, we only know how to slow our competitors down. Its like a chess game, but one where nobody knows what a checkmate really is.

If we knock the American tech giants down several pegs, as a hypothetical example, it might be beneficial in some ways. But we're also helping to clear the path for companies like Huawei to fill the void. That in turn, helps China project influence around the globe. Every nation-state in the world wants to position its resources (like corporations) as advantageously as possible, and they'll seize on any and every opportunity to do so.

We might not like wars for oil - we might like the alternatives even less.

Re: Iraq blocks Facebook, Twitter, WhatsApp, and Instagram, shuts down internet

#243

Post by toomuchtodo »

JohnFen wrote: post #134
kevas wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Others have stated their objections to your comment, but... my belief is that once StarLink becomes operational, the American Gov. will have oversight & control of it, just like our current ISPs.

I believe that the only way the US could legally do that is by exerting control over up/downlink stations that are in US jurisdiction. I'm assuming that things like Starlink will have up and downlink stations in places outside of the US as well as inside. Extralegally, though? All bets are off.

SpaceX is a US corporation, therefore US jurisdiction.

Re: Iraq blocks Facebook, Twitter, WhatsApp, and Instagram, shuts down internet

#244

Post by yellowapple »

bifrost wrote: post #239
yellowapple wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd imagine a laser at typical radio wavelengths would be just as susceptible to cloud-cover-induced interference as a non-laser at typical radio wavelengths, no? Not that even lasers would be necessary to mitigate jamming; ordinary beam-forming / directional antennas should be enough (barring some really sophisticated jamming technology of which I'm not aware, or the Iraqi government putting up and maintaining perma…

> imagine a laser at typical radio wavelengths Huh? Radios are Kilo/Mega/Gigahertz. Light is Terahertz.

Okay, sorry, "electromagnetic radiation amplified and collimated in the same manner as a laser does to visible light". Better?

Re: Iraq blocks Facebook, Twitter, WhatsApp, and Instagram, shuts down internet

#245

Post by Synaesthesia »

dwoozle wrote: post #140
vkou wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Contrast the public and political reaction to these events with the public and political reaction to the protests in Hong Kong.

Iraq is a basket case country whose government is hanging on by a thread. China is a superpower with clear aspirations to unipolar hegemony. They are not comparable and cannot be held to the same standard.

Iraq used to not be a basket case country until it was invaded by the unipolar hegemony.

Re: Iraq blocks Facebook, Twitter, WhatsApp, and Instagram, shuts down internet

#246

Post by iamsb »

whatevertrevor wrote: post #82
reubens wrote: post #76

From what I’ve gathered, disenfranchised citizens in Baghdad are protesting, and the government has responded by shutting down the internet. I understand it’s reactionary but what is their logic here?

You mean the logic in shutting down the internet? Countries do that these days (see Kashmir) to keep the protests under control by blocking communication and collaboration among the protesters. It increases the barrier to discovery and participation in a protest basically.

The shutdown in Kashmir is mostly to stop communications coming in from outside of India, mostly terrorist outfits in countries like Pakistan. There is lot of evidence in last 30 years or so how Kashmir becomes violent and how violent "protests" are organised with funding from state and non state actors from other countries.

Re: Iraq blocks Facebook, Twitter, WhatsApp, and Instagram, shuts down internet

#247

Post by input_sh »

JohnFen wrote: post #134
kevas wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Others have stated their objections to your comment, but... my belief is that once StarLink becomes operational, the American Gov. will have oversight & control of it, just like our current ISPs.

I believe that the only way the US could legally do that is by exerting control over up/downlink stations that are in US jurisdiction. I'm assuming that things like Starlink will have up and downlink stations in places outside of the US as well as inside. Extralegally, though? All bets are off.

You're making an assumption that Starlink will fight a nudge by the US government instead of quietly complying.

Re: Iraq blocks Facebook, Twitter, WhatsApp, and Instagram, shuts down internet

#248

Post by Thlom »

baybal2 wrote: post #64
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Imagine internet beyond the grasp of control freak governments Radio jammers. There are very few technological solutions to political problems.

LEO Ka band jamming is very hard https://www.mitre.org/sites/default/files/pdf/10_2505.pdf

Isn't starlink and most other LEO constellations ku, though?

Re: Iraq blocks Facebook, Twitter, WhatsApp, and Instagram, shuts down internet

#249

Post by lawnchair_larry »

jjcc wrote: post #227
anigbrowl wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Utter BS, a specious argument we've heard a million times before (often from Larry, who has been here a long time). You should go for a more subtle sty;e, right wing trolls are always endorsing pithiness, perhaps because of Andrew Anglin's fondness for that adjective in his Daily Stormer trolling guides. I'm sure you would not wish to be mistaken for keeping such noisome company.

Uncontrolled immigration will cause the dispute between 2 parties like you and Larry, and polarization of the society which neither party can convince the the other one. I'm not making a judgement about which party is correct or wrong. I'm just saying that there's an high order problem being ignored by a lot of people.

I just want to point out that I didn’t actually say that I oppose immigration or refugees. This is the internet in 2019, so unfortunately that means we assume that anything other than unwavering support for one tribe means you’re a member of the enemy tribe.

Like most issues, I’m personally more on the fence than I am in either camp. I do think it’s worth challenging someone when they make comments that take such strong positions on complicated issues, particularly when they are someone else’s problem.

Likewise, I don’t support the border wall. But that’s an easy position for me to take, because as far as I can tell, it doesn’t affect my life. However, I’m not in a position to assume anything about the character or motivations of those who live near the border and have strong opinions about it.

And I do find it odd that when it comes to judging the character and motivations of others, so many are willing to give more benefit of the doubt to foreigners than they are for their fellow countrymen with a different political affiliation. I mean, consider that it would be a statistical miracle for America to be the only country with so many “shitty” people. If you think half of the US are deplorable Nazis, then it stands to reason that the worst half of any other country is approximately as bad, so letting them in indiscriminately has to be at least as bad as supporting Republicans. Believe it or not, but some countries have democratically elected people even worse than Trump. If you let in 10 random filipinos, that means 4 of them voted for fucking Duterte. And in case it needs to be said, I have nothing whatsoever against filipinos - they’re just a convenient example. If your belief system is such that people from other countries are fundamentally as good as us, you are dishonest if you reject that this means they must also be fundamentally as bad as us (which becomes increasingly problematic if you happened to decide the right are all Nazis).

I could have it completely wrong, but I just can’t help but think that maybe not everyone on the right is an evil greedy Nazi. Just maybe there are reasonable people over there whose circumstances have led them to a different view on some issues, and maybe the world isn’t black and white.

I do agree with your comment though, and that’s been happening elsewhere already.

Re: Iraq blocks Facebook, Twitter, WhatsApp, and Instagram, shuts down internet

#250

Post by HNLurker2 »

yorwba wrote: post #122

I recall reading somewhere that internet shutdowns during protests are usually counterproductive. People who were previously only voicing their frustration online or passing the time with entertainment are suddenly left with a lot of free time on their hands. While a shutdown can prevent coordination on the national scale, it can't stop people from taking to the streets and organizing spontaneously. EDIT: Found my so…

Except when Russia does it: https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdoffman/2019/08/08/russian-s...
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