Tesla Delivers Record 97,000 Vehicles in Q3 • Hacker News Board

Re: Tesla Delivers Record 97,000 Vehicles in Q3

#201

Post by grizzles » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 4:50 AM UTC

rcMgD2BwE72F wrote: post #155

grizzles wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

S and X models are just the model 3 chassis with a different body & trim. Those are the parts of the car that are easy to change. Effectively they are selling the same product at 3 different price points. That's retail 101.

>S and X models are just the model 3 chassis with a different body & trim. That's incorrect.

Well let's see. They use the same range of Tesla batteries. They use the same motors. The same brakes (Brembo), same transmission, similar suspension. Neither have an ic engine, fuel tank or radiator. The difference in the wheelbase between the Model X (116.7) and Model (116.5) is 0.2 inches. As I said a different body. If I'm incorrect tell me how.

Re: Tesla Delivers Record 97,000 Vehicles in Q3

#202

Post by tmikaeld » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 4:52 AM UTC

thethrowboat wrote: post #149

et2o wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People have been making that exact argument for years. There have been so many "Tesla killers" that I've lost count. None have panned out. The Taycan is roughly twice as expensive as the equivalent Model S Tesla and has greatly inferior range and, among people likely to buy electric cars, presumably less brand value. People haven't forgotten VW's emissions scandal. Let's not forget they haven't even shipped a single…

Atleast in Europe i3 is selling almost as well as all Tesla models together. http://carsalesbase.com/car-sales-comparison/

I'd argue that it's because Tesla has been unable to deliver in enough quantities, which is about to change.

Re: Tesla Delivers Record 97,000 Vehicles in Q3

#203

Post by clouddrover » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 5:00 AM UTC

FullyFunctional wrote: post #200

clouddrover wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Furthermore, there's no real competition on the horizon Volkswagen will be delivering a lot of EVs in 2020. They're targeting everything from the low end (SEAT Mii) to the high end (Porsche Taycan). Here's Volkswagen's EV lineup for the next 18 months: - VW e-Up!: https://www.carscoops.com/2019/09/vws-updated-e-up-offers-16... - VW e-Golf (will be replaced by the ID.3, but still available): https://www.youtube.com/…

And yet none of these many examples are really compelling compared to a Tesla (wrt. range and performance). Quality > Quantity. I'm actually glad they are trying, but they need to try harder.

The Tesla Model 3 has 409km range WLTP for the Standard Range Plus model and 560km for the Long Range model. The ID.3 will have three battery sizes for 330km, 420km, and 550km WLTP at lower price points. The range argument isn't really there.

Taycan's Nürburgring performance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8m31EgQkswg

Tesla Model S Plaid's Nürburgring performance: https://www.thedrive.com/news/29946/porsche-taycan-laps-brok...

It's disappointing they're not even trying with the current Model S. The Plaid drive train is still a year away. Porsche is a year ahead on performance at this point.

Re: Tesla Delivers Record 97,000 Vehicles in Q3

#204

Post by FullyFunctional » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 5:10 AM UTC

threeseed wrote: post #97

kipchak wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have any numbers, but on the brand point I'd figure Tesla might be in a stronger position than Porsche in the younger demographics.

So we are playing the move the goalpost game. Younger demographics have less disposal income so they are hardly the type of customer you want to be betting on.

Who is moving goal posts? You claim above that the Porche is "Better in every way". Two rather significant ways it's not: speed and range.

Re: Tesla Delivers Record 97,000 Vehicles in Q3

#205

Post by FullyFunctional » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 5:20 AM UTC

alistproducer2 wrote: post #121

Good old zerohedge never misses an opportunity to shit on Tesla [0]. Question for Tesla owners: how is the reliability? I'd love to get unto an electric if only to never have to change my oil again but im curious as to what kind of maintenance requirements these cars have. [0] : https://www.zerohedge.com/technology/tesla-stock-tumbles-aft...

Amazing, truly, but ... don't get the early version of a new model. I got one of the very early (RWD, 2012) Model S. It was awesome, but it had a far amount of birthing problems and thankfully I live close enough to the service center. However, I really wanted AWD so I swapped it out in 2014 and I haven't had almost no problems with it since.

Compared to the (notoriously reliable) Subaru Impreza WRX I drove for 10 years prior to that, there are no regular oil changes, etc.

I do spend more on tires now :(

Re: Tesla Delivers Record 97,000 Vehicles in Q3

#206

Post by rasz » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 5:34 AM UTC

thethrowboat wrote: post #149

et2o wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People have been making that exact argument for years. There have been so many "Tesla killers" that I've lost count. None have panned out. The Taycan is roughly twice as expensive as the equivalent Model S Tesla and has greatly inferior range and, among people likely to buy electric cars, presumably less brand value. People haven't forgotten VW's emissions scandal. Let's not forget they haven't even shipped a single…

Atleast in Europe i3 is selling almost as well as all Tesla models together. http://carsalesbase.com/car-sales-comparison/

Most of central European i3 sales can be attributed to German power companies making a deal with BMW under the table. Pretty much 100% of i3 sales in Poland in 2019 went to innogygo, a Green car sharing company. Why Green? Because parent company, Innogy, is a subsidiary of RWE. The lets strip mine ancient Hambach forest (https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2018-hambach-forest/) for Lignite - THE dirtiest coal possible RWE. Sprinkle if with freshly cut Romanian forest (https://www.fern.org/fileadmin/uploads/fern/Documents/Up%20i...) and burn it all in Green coal^^^biomass!!1 fired power plants. Because in Germany co-firing dirtiest coal possible with small wood addition counts as green energy. Everybody wins, for a very specific definition of "everybody".

Re: Tesla Delivers Record 97,000 Vehicles in Q3

#207

Post by rasz » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 5:36 AM UTC

clouddrover wrote: post #203

FullyFunctional wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet none of these many examples are really compelling compared to a Tesla (wrt. range and performance). Quality > Quantity. I'm actually glad they are trying, but they need to try harder.

The Tesla Model 3 has 409km range WLTP for the Standard Range Plus model and 560km for the Long Range model. The ID.3 will have three battery sizes for 330km, 420km, and 550km WLTP at lower price points. The range argument isn't really there. Taycan's Nürburgring performance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8m31EgQkswg Tesla Model S Plaid's Nürburgring performance: https://www.thedrive.com/news/29946/porsche-taycan-l…

Car you cant buy yet is a year ahead on performance over another car you cant buy?

Re: Tesla Delivers Record 97,000 Vehicles in Q3

#208

Post by clouddrover » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 5:45 AM UTC

rasz wrote: post #207

clouddrover wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Tesla Model 3 has 409km range WLTP for the Standard Range Plus model and 560km for the Long Range model. The ID.3 will have three battery sizes for 330km, 420km, and 550km WLTP at lower price points. The range argument isn't really there. Taycan's Nürburgring performance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8m31EgQkswg Tesla Model S Plaid's Nürburgring performance: https://www.thedrive.com/news/29946/porsche-taycan-l…

Car you cant buy yet is a year ahead on performance over another car you cant buy?

You can buy the Taycan now. They started production a month ago:

https://www.thedrive.com/news/29865/watch-the-2020-porsche-t...

But you're going to be in a queue behind the 20,000 or so preorders.

Re: Tesla Delivers Record 97,000 Vehicles in Q3

#209

Post by thethrowboat » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 6:34 AM UTC

rasz wrote: post #206

thethrowboat wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Atleast in Europe i3 is selling almost as well as all Tesla models together. http://carsalesbase.com/car-sales-comparison/

Most of central European i3 sales can be attributed to German power companies making a deal with BMW under the table. Pretty much 100% of i3 sales in Poland in 2019 went to innogygo, a Green car sharing company. Why Green? Because parent company, Innogy, is a subsidiary of RWE. The lets strip mine ancient Hambach forest ( https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2018-hambach-forest/ ) for Lignite - THE dirtiest coal possib…

I dont know whats wrong with that, isnt it better they buy green cars than ICE cars?

Re: Tesla Delivers Record 97,000 Vehicles in Q3

#210

Post by davidgould » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 7:58 AM UTC

grizzles wrote: post #201

rcMgD2BwE72F wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>S and X models are just the model 3 chassis with a different body & trim. That's incorrect.

Well let's see. They use the same range of Tesla batteries. They use the same motors. The same brakes (Brembo), same transmission, similar suspension. Neither have an ic engine, fuel tank or radiator. The difference in the wheelbase between the Model X (116.7) and Model (116.5) is 0.2 inches. As I said a different body. If I'm incorrect tell me how.

Well, none of it is correct. S and X are mostly aluminum, Model 3 is mostly steel. S and X use AC induction motors, Model 3 uses PM motor (yeah, Raven and all, but historically this is true). S and X use 18650 cells, Model 3 uses 21700 cells with a different cooling architecture. Your definition of "the same" covers almost every electric made, not just Tesla. It's a stretch too far.