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Iraq blocks Facebook, Twitter, WhatsApp, and Instagram, shuts down internet

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Re: Iraq blocks Facebook, Twitter, WhatsApp, and Instagram, shuts down internet

#181

Post by lawnchair_larry »

aminecodes wrote: post #157
cmdshiftf4 wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wanting to protect your own civilization and way of life doesn't make one a bastard. It's this kind of divisive rhetoric that has spurned the division we see today and the rise of hard-right nationalism. Please learn to be somewhat more rational and civil in your discourse.

Refusing to accept people fleeing from death, torture and sorrowful life, because you are afraid they might interfere with your way of life, is a bastard move, to say the least.

How many refugees are living in your spare bedrooms?

Re: Iraq blocks Facebook, Twitter, WhatsApp, and Instagram, shuts down internet

#182

Post by ssvss »

yongjik wrote: post #55
Ahmed90 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the government is backed by Iran (puppet) and it's fully corrupt?

Wait, didn't America wage a war to install a pro-American government in Iraq? Are they somehow pro-American and pro-Iran at the same time, or did they switch alliances while nobody in the west was paying attention?

America waged war based on information provided by a Iraqi minister, who was later found to be working for Iranian interests.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmed_Chalabi

IRGC had also announced the Syria as its 35th province.

https://carnegieendowment.org/2013/08/27/iran-s-unwavering-s...

IRGC and Russian bombing had driven out most of the Sunni's from Southern Syria towards north Syria, close to Turkish borders. and Iran is repopulating the land with Shias from allover from Afghanistan to Lebanon.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jan/13/irans-syria-pr...

IRGC has sort of created a contiguous Shia controlled land mass from Iran, Iraq, Syria to Lebanon. Some geopolitical observers I follow, expect the next will be in Afghanistan, with Afghani Shias against Pakistan controlled Sunni Talibans, as soon as US withdraws from Afghanistan.

Re: Iraq blocks Facebook, Twitter, WhatsApp, and Instagram, shuts down internet

#184

Post by kamyarg »

mful wrote: post #154
Maultasche wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The initial government was pro-American, but the consequence of pushing a country to have democratic elections is that they sometimes elect people that you don't like. When you want a country to be free and democratic, you can't also tell them who to elect. You have to choose one or the other. The United States has often chosen the latter while pretending to want the former, but at least with Iraq they seem to be mos…

> The initial government was pro-American, but the consequence of pushing a country to have democratic elections is that they sometimes elect people that you don't like. I don't the right prior here is "elections = real democracy", for cases like Iraq. The US has long history of installing "democratic" governments that are not actually democratic, but rather military states who violently suppress the people, but supp…

Ironically whole thing started with CIA staged double coup(first one did not work apparently) in Iran during 1953(declassified recently). It was so successful that they copy-pasted it to LATAM and elsewhere. [1]

Interesting fact: Kermit Roosevelt Jr. a grandson of U.S. president Theodore Roosevelt, played the lead role in the CIA-sponsored overthrow of Mohammad Mossadegh, the democratically elected leader of Iran, in August 1953. [2]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d%27%C3%A9ta...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kermit_Roosevelt_Jr.

Re: Iraq blocks Facebook, Twitter, WhatsApp, and Instagram, shuts down internet

#185

Post by C14L »

Maultasche wrote: post #80
yongjik wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, didn't America wage a war to install a pro-American government in Iraq? Are they somehow pro-American and pro-Iran at the same time, or did they switch alliances while nobody in the west was paying attention?

The initial government was pro-American, but the consequence of pushing a country to have democratic elections is that they sometimes elect people that you don't like. When you want a country to be free and democratic, you can't also tell them who to elect. You have to choose one or the other. The United States has often chosen the latter while pretending to want the former, but at least with Iraq they seem to be mos…

> When you want a country to be free and democratic, you can't also tell them who to elect.

Wasn't that what happened in Egypt?

Re: Iraq blocks Facebook, Twitter, WhatsApp, and Instagram, shuts down internet

#186

Post by rorykoehler »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #92
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #72

And Europe has to pick up the pieces in terms of refugees while the US & Five Eyes sit back, popcorn in hand, and watch the mess they've made from a safe distance.

> And Europe has to pick up the pieces in terms of refugees For us (Europe) this is essentially dress rehearsal for upcoming climate-related migrations, and it turns out we're not handling it well.

Handled it pretty well imo

Re: Iraq blocks Facebook, Twitter, WhatsApp, and Instagram, shuts down internet

#187

Post by perl4ever »

lawnchair_larry wrote: post #176
perl4ever wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Iraq has "lost" at least a billion dollars of military equipment in recent years" That's... one tenth of one percent of the cost (to the US) of the war.

That’s the wrong measure by a long shot. If I lose a $2000 rifle, and that rifle is then used to massacre a school, was the loss a mere $2000?

If you lost a thousand $2000 rifles, then the loss was a "mere" 0.1%. Plus or minus an order of magnitude (or two).

I mean, like, you are implying the other 99.9% of spending on the war was harmless or salutary?

Re: Iraq blocks Facebook, Twitter, WhatsApp, and Instagram, shuts down internet

#188

Post by neltnerb »

mlindner wrote: post #147
parsimo2010 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. USA ousts Saddam Hussein, and is obligated to help Iraq transition to a democratic government (because they invasion was done under the pretext of liberating a country from a mad dictator with weapons of mass destruction, instead of the commonly cited argument of securing resources for the American empire). 2. USA backs a candidate and initially gets a government elected that is favorable to the USA. However, thes…

> instead of the commonly cited argument of securing resources for the American empire). I'm sorry but there are very few "citations" that state that the war was about securing resources for the American "empire". It was primarily about exactly the stated reasons and there is a popular and uncited belief that it was about oil. If you have some scholarly articles that state that it was completely about oil I'd love to…

As someone alive and paying attention to that period in time, I got the impression the "for oil" thing was generally hyperbole never explicitly stated but probably loosely true right since the VP was an oil guy.

Except that American oil companies didn't get any benefit so how does that make any sense? If we are willing to accept the evidence that oil companies in the US didn't meaningfully benefit, doesn't that whole argument kind of seem silly?

It's bad enough that we invaded under pretenses that really really really should have been obviously incorrect at the time, with no plan, just... I don't know. It seems unnecessary to even bother linking it to oil. It was evil. It was stupid.

Re: Iraq blocks Facebook, Twitter, WhatsApp, and Instagram, shuts down internet

#189

Post by kamyarg »

icebraining wrote: post #175
treebeard901 wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Standing between Saudi Arabia and Iran was Saddam Hussein and his military. By removing him it created a power vacuum that has been filled by various groups over time. The different election results in Iraq over the years now point to a chess game between Iran and Saudi Arabia for regional control. Now instead of Iraq standing between the other two, it's serving as a way to create conflict where the two may eventuall…

Which is exactly what was predicted: "That's a very volatile part of the world. And if you take down the central government in Iraq, you could easily end up seeing pieces of Iraq fly off. Part of it the Syrians would like to have, the west. Part of eastern Iraq the Iranians would like to claim. Fought over for eight years. In the north, you've got the Kurds. And if the Kurds spin loose and join with Kurds in Turkey,…

Correct me if I am wrong but isn't Cheney the one that basically pushed the war? When is this quote from?

From the Wikipedia article:

> Following the US invasion of Iraq, Cheney remained steadfast in his support of the war, stating that it would be an "enormous success story",[90] and made many visits to the country. He often criticized war critics, calling them "opportunists" who were peddling "cynical and pernicious falsehoods" to gain political advantage while US soldiers died in Iraq. In response, Senator John Kerry asserted, "It is hard to name a government official with less credibility on Iraq [than Cheney].

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dick_Cheney#Iraq_War

Re: Iraq blocks Facebook, Twitter, WhatsApp, and Instagram, shuts down internet

#190

Post by cmdshiftf4 »

matt_j wrote: post #172
cmdshiftf4 wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wanting to protect your own civilization and way of life doesn't make one a bastard. It's this kind of divisive rhetoric that has spurned the division we see today and the rise of hard-right nationalism. Please learn to be somewhat more rational and civil in your discourse.

The US conflict with Iraq was unjustified and based on blatant lies. Whatever their reasons for invading, they were certainly to further their own interests, the economic boost of a war machine and rebuilding infrastructure, geo-politics, etc. The interests of the "poor Iraqi people" come about dead last on the list of reasons the wars occurred. So "protecting your civilisation and way of life" from the fallout of an…

The social costs of the US directly meddling in Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya and elsewhere, along with the subsequent fallout that came from this meddling, has not fallen on the USA.

It has fallen almost solely on Europe. If the US were providing adequately for its victims, the Middle East taking in their fellow Muslims, and China showing some semblance of humanity in offering a home to some, we wouldn't be seeing the rise of nationalism in Europe that we now are.

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