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Iraq blocks Facebook, Twitter, WhatsApp, and Instagram, shuts down internet

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Re: Iraq blocks Facebook, Twitter, WhatsApp, and Instagram, shuts down internet

#141

Post by blackflame7000 »

baddox wrote: post #127
Maultasche wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The initial government was pro-American, but the consequence of pushing a country to have democratic elections is that they sometimes elect people that you don't like. When you want a country to be free and democratic, you can't also tell them who to elect. You have to choose one or the other. The United States has often chosen the latter while pretending to want the former, but at least with Iraq they seem to be mos…

> The United States has often chosen the latter Seems like it's usually a government that's popular with its people that gets overthrown and replaced by a "democratic" government.

The incumbent government is usually popular because it's a totalitarian regime where the people aren't given a choice.

Re: Iraq blocks Facebook, Twitter, WhatsApp, and Instagram, shuts down internet

#142

Post by dwoozle »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #92
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #72

And Europe has to pick up the pieces in terms of refugees while the US & Five Eyes sit back, popcorn in hand, and watch the mess they've made from a safe distance.

> And Europe has to pick up the pieces in terms of refugees For us (Europe) this is essentially dress rehearsal for upcoming climate-related migrations, and it turns out we're not handling it well.

What would handling it “well” mean?

Re: Iraq blocks Facebook, Twitter, WhatsApp, and Instagram, shuts down internet

#143

Post by Cyph0n »

Maultasche wrote: post #80
yongjik wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, didn't America wage a war to install a pro-American government in Iraq? Are they somehow pro-American and pro-Iran at the same time, or did they switch alliances while nobody in the west was paying attention?

The initial government was pro-American, but the consequence of pushing a country to have democratic elections is that they sometimes elect people that you don't like. When you want a country to be free and democratic, you can't also tell them who to elect. You have to choose one or the other. The United States has often chosen the latter while pretending to want the former, but at least with Iraq they seem to be mos…

But Maliki was America’s choice while also being clearly pro-Shia. Or are you talking about the transitional government?

Re: Iraq blocks Facebook, Twitter, WhatsApp, and Instagram, shuts down internet

#144

Post by elboru »

quaquaqua1 wrote: post #77
djsumdog wrote: post #66

Well mission accomplished .. I guess. A great documentary if you haven't seen it is "Iraq: No End in Sight." It's pretty clear that the completely failed (non-existent) reconstruction efforts of the Bush administration would lead eventually to a failed state. The same thing is happening in Libya after the Obama era bombings. These places weren't democratic paradises before or anything; I'm not saying that. They had c…

All warfare actions conducted by the United States are excuses for agencies to spend money, and the money goes to corporations that are contolled by politically connected individuals. The dividends from the government consumption of these items enrich the people who are giving the orders to launch the missiles. It is beyond disheartening that innocent people die because of this. I would rather just pay the money, if…

I usually hear this kind of statement, is it really that simple? Aren’t there other geopolitical interests from the strongest economy in the world?

Re: Iraq blocks Facebook, Twitter, WhatsApp, and Instagram, shuts down internet

#145

Post by hanniabu »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #3
georgeburdell wrote: post #2

Starlink can’t come soon enough. Imagine internet beyond the grasp of control freak governments

> Imagine internet beyond the grasp of control freak governments Radio jammers. There are very few technological solutions to political problems.

Yeah, but what about the radio jammer jammers?

Re: Iraq blocks Facebook, Twitter, WhatsApp, and Instagram, shuts down internet

#146

Post by mlindner »

Maultasche wrote: post #80
yongjik wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, didn't America wage a war to install a pro-American government in Iraq? Are they somehow pro-American and pro-Iran at the same time, or did they switch alliances while nobody in the west was paying attention?

The initial government was pro-American, but the consequence of pushing a country to have democratic elections is that they sometimes elect people that you don't like. When you want a country to be free and democratic, you can't also tell them who to elect. You have to choose one or the other. The United States has often chosen the latter while pretending to want the former, but at least with Iraq they seem to be mos…

The hands off approach to Iraq is exactly how we got ISIS btw...

Re: Iraq blocks Facebook, Twitter, WhatsApp, and Instagram, shuts down internet

#147

Post by mlindner »

parsimo2010 wrote: post #129
GhettoMaestro wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an American, I am curious to hear more about how we were "outplayed" re the Iraqi Gov. Thanks in advance.

1. USA ousts Saddam Hussein, and is obligated to help Iraq transition to a democratic government (because they invasion was done under the pretext of liberating a country from a mad dictator with weapons of mass destruction, instead of the commonly cited argument of securing resources for the American empire). 2. USA backs a candidate and initially gets a government elected that is favorable to the USA. However, thes…

> instead of the commonly cited argument of securing resources for the American empire).

I'm sorry but there are very few "citations" that state that the war was about securing resources for the American "empire". It was primarily about exactly the stated reasons and there is a popular and uncited belief that it was about oil. If you have some scholarly articles that state that it was completely about oil I'd love to see them.

Re: Iraq blocks Facebook, Twitter, WhatsApp, and Instagram, shuts down internet

#148

Post by treebeard901 »

parsimo2010 wrote: post #129
GhettoMaestro wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an American, I am curious to hear more about how we were "outplayed" re the Iraqi Gov. Thanks in advance.

1. USA ousts Saddam Hussein, and is obligated to help Iraq transition to a democratic government (because they invasion was done under the pretext of liberating a country from a mad dictator with weapons of mass destruction, instead of the commonly cited argument of securing resources for the American empire). 2. USA backs a candidate and initially gets a government elected that is favorable to the USA. However, thes…

Standing between Saudi Arabia and Iran was Saddam Hussein and his military. By removing him it created a power vacuum that has been filled by various groups over time.

The different election results in Iraq over the years now point to a chess game between Iran and Saudi Arabia for regional control.

Now instead of Iraq standing between the other two, it's serving as a way to create conflict where the two may eventually fight each other like the Iran-Iraq war in the 80s.

If the U.S. does not get involved in this scenario then the long term strategic outcome of the 2003 Iraq war might be seen differently. On the other hand, if Iran wins and becomes more powerful, the Iraq war will look even worse.

Re: Iraq blocks Facebook, Twitter, WhatsApp, and Instagram, shuts down internet

#149

Post by cmdshiftf4 »

corford wrote: post #132
cheese4242 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europe doesn't have to do anything if it doesn't want to. They can just not let in refugees (whether legitimate refugees or pretenders).

Fortunately, we're not all bastards

Wanting to protect your own civilization and way of life doesn't make one a bastard.

It's this kind of divisive rhetoric that has spurned the division we see today and the rise of hard-right nationalism. Please learn to be somewhat more rational and civil in your discourse.

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