Car tires biggest likely source of microplastics in California coastal waters • Hacker News Board

Re: Car tires biggest likely source of microplastics in California coastal waters

#51

Post by hinkley » Wed, Oct 02, 2019, 6:42 PM UTC

tedsanders wrote: post #6

This is one reason why I don't like living near freeways, especially near on-ramps, off-ramps, and interchanges. Car pollution isn't just tailpipe emissions - I believe a lot of airborne particulates come from tires and brakes (especially during acceleration, deceleration, and turning). https://www.cdc.gov/air/particulate_matter.html

Came up in conversation when I took my car in that up until recently they were using little bits of copper in brake pads for... noise control? heat? I can't recall which.

But that's been outlawed now, presumably due to potential for metal toxicity (any mineral you need in your diet is also lethal at higher doses). We're leaving powdered copper at every stop light.

Re: Car tires biggest likely source of microplastics in California coastal waters

#52

Post by cma » Wed, Oct 02, 2019, 6:42 PM UTC

billions wrote: post #46

jumpingmice wrote: post #35

Imagine all the problems that would be solved if someone invented a car with metal wheels, maybe one that can hold hundreds of people, goes really fast, is quiet and efficient....

Trains are less efficient than cars on a per mile basis. https://www.theprch.com/this-vs-that/fuel-efficiency-planes-...

Sounds like trains are less efficient than cars maybe only in the US, because of lots of empty seats and/or less cars per passenger train:

>In the fuel efficiency information provided below you’ll see that trains are unexpectedly low, but this data can be a bit misleading because it’s from research that only studied trains in the US. There are two things to note:

>1) Americans don’t utilize trains as a mode of transportation very much in comparison with European and Asian countries. This brings fuel efficiency down because there are less people being transported per train moving.

>2)Trains have varying fuel efficiencies themselves. They are powered by either a normal combustion engine using diesel fuel or an electric motor. The efficiency of electric trains is highly variable because of the source of electricity. Electricity from a coal fired power plant will be much less efficient then renewable resources such as hydroelectric, wind, or solar.

Re: Car tires biggest likely source of microplastics in California coastal waters

#53

Post by CJefferson » Wed, Oct 02, 2019, 6:42 PM UTC

billions wrote: post #46

jumpingmice wrote: post #35

Imagine all the problems that would be solved if someone invented a car with metal wheels, maybe one that can hold hundreds of people, goes really fast, is quiet and efficient....

Trains are less efficient than cars on a per mile basis. https://www.theprch.com/this-vs-that/fuel-efficiency-planes-...

The article says underutilised, old and inefficient US Antrak trains are less efficient. Thsts quite believable, but isn't a general comment against trains.

Re: Car tires biggest likely source of microplastics in California coastal waters

#54

Post by bradlys » Wed, Oct 02, 2019, 6:42 PM UTC

luckydata wrote: post #40

umvi wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...and can only go to select locations at certain times that may or may not align with your final destination or schedule.

the last mile problem can be solved in a million different ways: bikes, taxis, uber, walking, buses... Eliminating car culture is non optional if we want to save the planet.

Unless you live more than a mile away... Lots of people don't live in densely populated areas near train tracks where getting off the train and getting home is Obviously, it makes sense for those who do but most of America is sprawly and isn't designed for rail transit efficiency.

I'd appreciate good quite rail but it isn't anywhere near feasible in these sprawly landscapes.

Re: Car tires biggest likely source of microplastics in California coastal waters

#55

Post by hannasanarion » Wed, Oct 02, 2019, 6:43 PM UTC

umvi wrote: post #44

luckydata wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the last mile problem can be solved in a million different ways: bikes, taxis, uber, walking, buses... Eliminating car culture is non optional if we want to save the planet.

It's easy to say "use trains" when you live in a highly dense area. But America-the-continent is massive and not very dense on average. I'm not convinced trains would be viable economically like they are in Japan.

Nobody is arguing that there needs to be a subway with hourly service between Denver and Boise. There is no excuse for the coasts, south, and midwest not to have better train service. If you exclude Alaska and the Mountain States, the US has the same population density as Europe.

Re: Car tires biggest likely source of microplastics in California coastal waters

#56

Post by devmunchies » Wed, Oct 02, 2019, 6:43 PM UTC

umvi wrote: post #44

luckydata wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the last mile problem can be solved in a million different ways: bikes, taxis, uber, walking, buses... Eliminating car culture is non optional if we want to save the planet.

It's easy to say "use trains" when you live in a highly dense area. But America-the-continent is massive and not very dense on average. I'm not convinced trains would be viable economically like they are in Japan.

but at least half of the country lives in a dense area. surely it'd be a start to remove the need for cars in cities > 200,000 people.

Re: Car tires biggest likely source of microplastics in California coastal waters

#57

Post by manigandham » Wed, Oct 02, 2019, 6:44 PM UTC

billions wrote: post #46

jumpingmice wrote: post #35

Imagine all the problems that would be solved if someone invented a car with metal wheels, maybe one that can hold hundreds of people, goes really fast, is quiet and efficient....

Trains are less efficient than cars on a per mile basis. https://www.theprch.com/this-vs-that/fuel-efficiency-planes-...

From the article: "In the US: Cars are generally more efficient than trains when there are 2 or more people traveling."

That's rare. The vast majority of traffic is 1 person per car, which completely changes the results here to make it worse than the rest.

Re: Car tires biggest likely source of microplastics in California coastal waters

#58

Post by unethical_ban » Wed, Oct 02, 2019, 6:44 PM UTC

umvi wrote: post #44

luckydata wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the last mile problem can be solved in a million different ways: bikes, taxis, uber, walking, buses... Eliminating car culture is non optional if we want to save the planet.

It's easy to say "use trains" when you live in a highly dense area. But America-the-continent is massive and not very dense on average. I'm not convinced trains would be viable economically like they are in Japan.

I don't expect trains or rail to take over every middle-sized town, but the 1-2 million+ cities should all be (and many are) looking at revitalizing downtown areas for greater density and walkability. And it would be great for tightly connected metro areas to have high speed rail between them.

Re: Car tires biggest likely source of microplastics in California coastal waters

#59

Post by untog » Wed, Oct 02, 2019, 6:45 PM UTC

billions wrote: post #46

jumpingmice wrote: post #35

Imagine all the problems that would be solved if someone invented a car with metal wheels, maybe one that can hold hundreds of people, goes really fast, is quiet and efficient....

Trains are less efficient than cars on a per mile basis. https://www.theprch.com/this-vs-that/fuel-efficiency-planes-...

That study seems to only look at Amtrak trains, so it doesn't consider the large number of subway or urban light rail systems in use. Amtrak has relatively few passengers (along with many other problems). The NYC subway system, for example, is far, far more fuel efficient than a car. As is probably any moderately used metro service.

Re: Car tires biggest likely source of microplastics in California coastal waters

#60

Post by merpnderp » Wed, Oct 02, 2019, 6:45 PM UTC

billions wrote: post #46

jumpingmice wrote: post #35

Imagine all the problems that would be solved if someone invented a car with metal wheels, maybe one that can hold hundreds of people, goes really fast, is quiet and efficient....

Trains are less efficient than cars on a per mile basis. https://www.theprch.com/this-vs-that/fuel-efficiency-planes-...

When you measure comfort per mile, cars are nearly infinitely superior to trains.