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Is anyone working on something that is not a website?

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Re: Is anyone working on something that is not a website?

#12
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I don't think an average kid out of college is capable of something like this." I've done both desktop/server software and web software, and IMHO good web software is harder. With web software, you have to explicitly think about many things that just aren't an issue with conventional software, like how to distribute the load of a million users over dozens of boxes. It helps that user expectations for UI responsivene…

"I've done both desktop/server software and web software, and IMHO good web software is harder." I am not saying web development is necessarily easier. I don't have any problem believing Javascript or AJAX is a lot of pain to get working consistently across various browsers. What I am saying is that serious software (i.e., the kind that people are willing to pay for) requires deeper knowledge and practical experience…

People are willing to pay for web software too (as evidenced by Reddit, HotOrNot, PlentyOfFish, and various other profitable web startups). It's just that different people are willing to pay for it. The business model for consumer webstartups is to offer a simple service to lots of people for free, so that you deliver something of value to advertisers.

Most profitable software requires deep knowledge of at least one relatively unknown technology (the three web startups mentioned above are exceptions). This applies as much to web startups as desktop startups, eg. Google had deep knowledge of search, YouTube of Flash and video, Amazon of inventory and retailing. But acquiring this deep knowledge is not rocket science: typically, you identify the technologies that'll be useful for your app, you read all the publicly available documentation, you download a demo and write some prototypes, you ask some questions on a mailing list, and you e-mail the support people at the vendor (possibly paying for a product along the way). Fresh college graduates typically don't have this knowledge off the bat because it's not taught in school and they aren't exposed to it, but that doesn't prevent them from picking it up quickly. Look at Loopt, for example.

Re: Is anyone working on something that is not a website?

#13
first post, perhaps the first time I actually have something to contribute :).

There are two startup-ish things I do that are not websites, but are largely disseminated via the web:

a) my main job is represented at gmatdaily.wordpress.com. I sell study materials for the GMAT ...I worked in the industry for a few years, discovered a multitude of problems, and am slowly solving them all.

b) i collect, package, analyze, and sell college baseball statistics to major league teams ... my partner and I had a website for this (collegesplits.com) where we gave away a lot of the data for free, but eventually took it down because the maintenance wasn't worth it. My web presence in the field made it easy to line up customers, and I suppose I could set up a members-only site to deliver the data (and thus the business would be a website), but that's not what the clients want.

Now, perhaps one of these days I'll work on something that IS a website :).

Re: Is anyone working on something that is not a website?

#14
I cannot tell you in very concrete terms what we're doing (it has to do with data integration), but I can tell you the reason why we will probably NOT do it as a web app. It's not the UI capabilities, it's the data hub problem and economics.

Anything you do on the web has to funnel every piece of data through that web app because browsers cannot access anything other than their originating server (They might soon be able to do that via Flex/Silverlight type plugins). Even if they could, it just doesn't make sense for many data centric interactive applications to buy a lot of servers when a huge number of powerful PC clients does almost nothing.

I reckon, if I have some algorithmic data analysis stuff and I can distribute that to client machines to some degree, I can make my service cheaper and maybe even architecturally simpler in some cases, because there is a natural partitioning scheme. Ok, now I see this argument becomes quite obscure without going into further detail so I'll leave it at that.

Re: Is anyone working on something that is not a website?

#15
Our product is not a website, but it is web-based (it is installable web-based system administration tools). I dunno if that qualifies by your definition.

So we have all of the pain of developing a web-based application (browser incompatibilities, limitations of the medium, etc.) with all of the negatives of installed applications (high barrier to adoption, lower volume, etc.). But it does give us a business model that everyone can easily understand: Give us money, we give you software, you install it, we support you. Next year, you give us money again and we keep supporting you.

Web applications are the most fun to build, but there's an awful lot of room for technology in non-web spaces. Large retailers a huge users of technology (and their websites are generally not even a blip on the radar, as far as technology expenditures go--I was involved briefly in a $2.7 million content distribution deployment for Lowe's...I'm certain they haven't spent more than a tenth that much on their website).

Lots of areas for high tech to make a huge impact on peoples lives (and thus make a huge impact on your bottom line): Medical records and billing, legal services, banking, accounting, warehouse automation, etc. There are businesses working in all of these spaces already, of course, but there's still plenty of niches left unfilled.

Re: Is anyone working on something that is not a website?

#16
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I don't think an average kid out of college is capable of something like this." I've done both desktop/server software and web software, and IMHO good web software is harder. With web software, you have to explicitly think about many things that just aren't an issue with conventional software, like how to distribute the load of a million users over dozens of boxes. It helps that user expectations for UI responsivene…

"I've done both desktop/server software and web software, and IMHO good web software is harder." I am not saying web development is necessarily easier. I don't have any problem believing Javascript or AJAX is a lot of pain to get working consistently across various browsers. What I am saying is that serious software (i.e., the kind that people are willing to pay for) requires deeper knowledge and practical experience…

I also think it takes more business knowledge - distribution, packaging, etc.

Re: Is anyone working on something that is not a website?

#18
post #3

I'm fascinated by businesses that still deal in physical goods or services, but are enabled because of the web. The two best examples being netflix and city carshare-type businesses.

Don't forget threadless and moo as two other great examples of using the web to rework real world products.

Re: Is anyone working on something that is not a website?

#19
post #4

There are plenty of startups that make cool software. Trolltech, Sleepycat (now Oracle), VMWare, Coverity are just a few that come to mind. I think the main difference between software startups compared to web startups is that there is a lot more depth to them. I don't think an average kid out of college is capable of something like this. I am working on software development tools: http://www.codesynthesis.com

"I don't think an average kid out of college is capable of something like this." I've done both desktop/server software and web software, and IMHO good web software is harder. With web software, you have to explicitly think about many things that just aren't an issue with conventional software, like how to distribute the load of a million users over dozens of boxes. It helps that user expectations for UI responsivene…

"I've done both desktop/server software and web software, and IMHO good web software is harder."

I can only ask what kind of software have you developed, sir?

If web software was harder, you wouldn't see "products" created over a weekend shaping up into companies a week later. And don't get me started on "millions of users on dozen boxes".

The primitiveness of web application development is mainly the reason why so many "ex-taxi drivers" and are rolling out web apps daily.

Two huge reasons why web app development is so trivial are: - You control your hardware. This is really important. - You do not need to develop UI. Web Pages are joke compared to the "real thing".

For starters, try to develop an super-simple desktop application that uploads an arbitrary file to a given FTP address, let 100,000 users (let alone millions) download it to discover: - It won't start - It won't connect - It crashes their computer. - "Where did it go?" question after downloading.

You'll be amazed. You will realize that PCs of most people are just like jungle, populated with adware, multiple software firewalls running simultaneously, paranoid anti-virus packages, missing DLLs and weird security settings. Moreover, users will be brutal: they'll be turning power off in the middle of your disk writes, they will upgrade libraries you linked to without asking you first, they will install your executable on desktop and will be killing files you create, the list goes on.

Over 80% of developing desktop software consists of two things: - Fighting unexpected problems in a hostile environment of user's PC - Dealing with real, LIVE UI that is reflecting real-time changing objects, and is pleasant to use.

On top of that you're trying to do this using minimal amount of libraries, because you can't expect people to download 100MB installer.

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