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Bulgaria is the world’s fastest-shrinking country

bbc.com

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Re: Bulgaria is the world’s fastest-shrinking country

#81

Post by akmarinov »

tbojanin wrote: post #19
moltar wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are the tech salaries like in Bulgaria?

My cousin is in his 20's, roughly makes 10,000/ month (~ $5600 USD). That salary is absolutely amazing. The article states the minimum monthly salary is $320 ( which a large amount of people make, given that Bulgaria lacks a middle class). The reason he stays in Bulgaria is because of that, he wanted to come join me in the US, but he didn't want to emigrate. edit: mrtksn's comment hits the nail on top of the head.

While it's possible to make 10k/month, he's in a rather small percentile of people doing so. The average salary in the IT industry is around $1800-2000. Which is still quite a lot, considering the cost of living.

Re: Bulgaria is the world’s fastest-shrinking country

#82

Post by tbojanin »

kungito wrote: post #70
tbojanin wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My cousin is in his 20's, roughly makes 10,000/ month (~ $5600 USD). That salary is absolutely amazing. The article states the minimum monthly salary is $320 ( which a large amount of people make, given that Bulgaria lacks a middle class). The reason he stays in Bulgaria is because of that, he wanted to come join me in the US, but he didn't want to emigrate. edit: mrtksn's comment hits the nail on top of the head.

I keep hearing about these famous salaries in Croatia as well but my impression is that most people get a starting monthly net salary of 1000€ after masters in CS or SDE. Then there's some people who interned during college which get salaries from 1200-2000€ after college depending on how much networking they did. Then there's like 1% of developers/scientists who make 2-5k€ by being able to somehow market them to som…

He is doing full time for a local company. Given that he is in his very late 20's (almost 30). He started around 1200Euro but built his way up to his current salary by jumping companies/roles every 2 years for a salary boost (similarly to how its done in the states).

Re: Bulgaria is the world’s fastest-shrinking country

#83

Post by akmarinov »

kfk wrote: post #22

Random facts from living 3 months there on why this could be a high potential country: * 10% income tax (second lowest in EU), 5% dividend tax * Very low costs of living (rent is 300-400 eur for a flat in Sofia) * Relatively easy to start companies * It's quite safe, at least safer than Naples from where I am from * Very good quality of food * Close to the seaside (about 3 hours from Greek coast also) * Nice summers…

> * It's quite safe, at least safer than Naples from where I am from

Fun fact, we've only ever had 2 serial killers that we know of!

Re: Bulgaria is the world’s fastest-shrinking country

#84

Post by tdsamardzhiev »

mrtksn wrote: post #8

Okay, let me draw a picture for you as someone who contributed to Bulgaria's shrinkage. It all starts in 1989, communist Bulgaria decides that it no longer wants its Turkish minority and a large number of people are deported or "let go" to Turkey. BBC has a short documntary on it[0]. Houses and lands are abandoned and only those who are too weak to immigrate remain. Congratulations, now you have ghost-city like place…

> but some places still look like Half-Life 2

Fun fact: Half-Life 2's art director is Bulgarian.

Re: Bulgaria is the world’s fastest-shrinking country

#85

Post by mrtksn »

m3at wrote: post #72
mrtksn wrote: post #8

Okay, let me draw a picture for you as someone who contributed to Bulgaria's shrinkage. It all starts in 1989, communist Bulgaria decides that it no longer wants its Turkish minority and a large number of people are deported or "let go" to Turkey. BBC has a short documntary on it[0]. Houses and lands are abandoned and only those who are too weak to immigrate remain. Congratulations, now you have ghost-city like place…

Thank you for taking the time to write from experience, very insightful. Out of curiosity, when did you leave and for where? Hope it worked out great for you.

Thanks! I was a kid when my parents were forced to move to Turkey in 1989, then returned a year later because the older relatives couldn't make it(and didn't want to, anyway). I am not sure that deportation is the right word here, they gave them to option to have a suitcase with the belongings and leave or remain and face whatever is coming next(it wasn't a genocide but imprisonments and murders were a thing).

Later my parents moved to Turkey again due to the economic situation while our relatives took care of me and y brother(At that time it was not possible to immigrate to Turkey legally, so they went to work there). So in 1999 through very illegal ways they managed take us to Turkey and we couldn't go back to Bulgaria for many years until we sort out our legal situation in Turkey. Even though my parents are skilled (Electrical Engineer with a masters degree and a nurse) they had to work undocumented, effectively ruining their careers.

Overall it turned out fine I guess. Could have been worse or better, each situation comes with it's benefits in the long run. I am not big fan of borders, so mildly annoyed from the recent trends of love towards borders.

Re: Bulgaria is the world’s fastest-shrinking country

#86

Post by jacobush »

alipang wrote: post #80
cpursley wrote: post #25

A side effect of a stagnant economy and population shrinkage is that Bulgarian property is really cheap. You can purchase a modern flat starting around $15,000 (or rent for really cheap) in a ski community with a very strong remote worker presence (Bansko). If you do this right, you can also become a resident and benefit from a flat 10% income tax which is lowest in the EU. No affiliation; I just find this type of ar…

I have a company in Bulgaria while working remotely for a high-salary EU country, and it's almost shocking to realise how much you spend on taxes in most European countries when you see the difference in your bank account. It's quite a good deal if you want to be a digital nomad since it's an EU country and you can get a really small apartment for almost nothing to use as your official address while travelling. (You'…

PM ... how?

Re: Bulgaria is the world’s fastest-shrinking country

#87

Post by zarro »

The problem of the countries in eastern Europe is primarily political corruption, rooted from the old soviet system and slowing dying off.

But, this is being resolved by: People moving to other countries resulting in a decrease in government tax revenue, giving less incentive to extort money through corruption and forces efficiency on government services (out of necessity), and in the end, it makes it a competitive market again.

People like my parents who left will never go back. But for people like me, if the conditions in those countries improve and become attractive again (and they seem to be improving), I have no problem with going back.

Re: Bulgaria is the world’s fastest-shrinking country

#88

Post by Iwan-Zotow »

alipang wrote: post #80
cpursley wrote: post #25

A side effect of a stagnant economy and population shrinkage is that Bulgarian property is really cheap. You can purchase a modern flat starting around $15,000 (or rent for really cheap) in a ski community with a very strong remote worker presence (Bansko). If you do this right, you can also become a resident and benefit from a flat 10% income tax which is lowest in the EU. No affiliation; I just find this type of ar…

I have a company in Bulgaria while working remotely for a high-salary EU country, and it's almost shocking to realise how much you spend on taxes in most European countries when you see the difference in your bank account. It's quite a good deal if you want to be a digital nomad since it's an EU country and you can get a really small apartment for almost nothing to use as your official address while travelling. (You'…

> small apartment for almost nothing

ha-ha-ha-ha-ha, the only problem is with people gone infrastructure around those apartment is quickly going down the drain

Re: Bulgaria is the world’s fastest-shrinking country

#89

Post by Zenst »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #50
cpursley wrote: post #25

A side effect of a stagnant economy and population shrinkage is that Bulgarian property is really cheap. You can purchase a modern flat starting around $15,000 (or rent for really cheap) in a ski community with a very strong remote worker presence (Bansko). If you do this right, you can also become a resident and benefit from a flat 10% income tax which is lowest in the EU. No affiliation; I just find this type of ar…

And assuming the EU's freedom of movement holds eventually people and business will realize this and move there. Then they'll do what everyone else does shoot themselves in the foot by making everything expensive. Eventually the new growth will happen elsewhere and the cycle will repeat.

Interesting that you say that, lets look at Poland. They saw a decrease in skilled workers and young who moved around the EU for better opertunities. This saw many parts of Poland become ghost towns. This got to a head and the goverment in Poland got to the point that they introduced a new TAX system. One comparable to USA TAX for nationals in that it didn't matter what part of the World you lived in or earned your money, you as a national would now pay tax. This saw many return home and Poland is now in many parts a growing area of opertunity, many who left initialy returned to a country much more robust, things had improved and with that, they happily returned and for them - life is now much better than the opportunities that saw them be tempted to leave in the first place. This with other initiatives like scrapping income tax for young, to give them a kickstart and remove the easy temptation to get skilled up and then leave, have made a big difference. Though the aspect of having to pay tax twice upon income, really did drive things home in many ways overall from those I know.

This is based upon many fine Polish nationals I've had the pleasure to know over my years and keeping up with current events.

Re: Bulgaria is the world’s fastest-shrinking country

#90

Post by lm28469 »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #50
cpursley wrote: post #25

A side effect of a stagnant economy and population shrinkage is that Bulgarian property is really cheap. You can purchase a modern flat starting around $15,000 (or rent for really cheap) in a ski community with a very strong remote worker presence (Bansko). If you do this right, you can also become a resident and benefit from a flat 10% income tax which is lowest in the EU. No affiliation; I just find this type of ar…

And assuming the EU's freedom of movement holds eventually people and business will realize this and move there. Then they'll do what everyone else does shoot themselves in the foot by making everything expensive. Eventually the new growth will happen elsewhere and the cycle will repeat.

> And assuming the EU's freedom of movement holds eventually people and business will realize this and move there.

Most people don't move to a country like Bulgaria just for a job. It's fine when you're 2X years old, can work remotely and have time to get into the culture, language, &c. As soon as you have a serious gf/bf or a family you can forget it. One of my colleague is Bulgarian, he moved to Germany because of corruption, lack of quality school, lack of good paying jobs, and that was in Sofia, not some random small town.

There is a reason why it's cheap and everyone is leaving. Also, people underestimate the personal cost of moving to completely culturally different country, you'll never feel at home there unless you live in some kind of gated community or expat district.

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