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Bulgaria is the world’s fastest-shrinking country

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51–60 of 319 posts

Re: Bulgaria is the world’s fastest-shrinking country

#51
Sort-of-a-unique thing in Bulgaria (compared to rest of EU) is not only close ties with Russia in economics but actual nostalgia of the "old-times". While Polish or Hungarian people would never want to return to comunistic times, we sometimes do. I'm not sure I can exactly pin it down why, maybe it's the close language, culture and shared alphabet or it could be that we are particularly nostalgic nation. In any case it creates a constant feeling of being the "Trojan horse" of Russia, being used by their economical and political interests with a nation that swigns back and forth electing the old-comunist party (that not changed at all other than their name s/comunist/socialist/) and the "Right/central-right" pro-EU (on paper at least).

For many in my generation (90s), the dream of leaving the country has been propagandized by parents who were never able to leave themselves due to the Iron Curtain. Many would attest getting the Serbian radio close to the border in a desperate attempt to hear something "western". As much as the nation longs for the old-times, it longs for the West. And the split is maybe about 50/50. However few would leave for the East and many, many would flood the gates once we entered EU 12 years ago.

12 years ago is when late 80s and 90s children were graduating. We didn't have much idea exactly what is bad with the country, as no teenager knows too much. But we all saw the opportunity and we've all heard the stories of the successful uncle who managed to "fix their life" abroad. So we flocked. Cheap flights accelerated the process, free education in some countries like Scotland and the Netherlands. So the "brain-drain" was accelerated. If people could leave before with hard-obtained visas or illegaly, now it was easy and free for all.

Yet, 12 years later we are still the poorest country in EU with the poorest overall north-western region which was once one of the most prosperous regions back when aggriculture was the main sector. Turism and services instead is now the main sector and sure, there are some companies that are succesful, the low salaries compared to what you can make abroad is worth a bit of home-sickness endurance. It's hard to get out of it with the open borders - it's a feedback loop as more "brain drain" happens, less innovation and money can come towards the country and corruption proliferates.

Re: Bulgaria is the world’s fastest-shrinking country

#52
post #4
post #2

Its neighbour to the north, Romania, may be in a similar situation, for the same reasons. It lost 6 million people since 1990, with several million each living in Spain and Italy.

Am Romanian, I entered the comment section to say the same thing. More than half my friends and work acquaintances from the last 10-15 years have moved abroad.

My company has opened an office in Bucharest, mainly hiring tech workers. Windows and Unix admins, DBAs, app support but I'm sure other areas as well. I'll be hiring my first employees over there soon. From what I understand, salaries over there in these areas are comparable to elsewhere in Europe as various tech companies have opened offices there as well, but I'm just beginning to learn more about the economy as a whole. Any insights welcome.

Re: Bulgaria is the world’s fastest-shrinking country

#53
post #22

Random facts from living 3 months there on why this could be a high potential country: * 10% income tax (second lowest in EU), 5% dividend tax * Very low costs of living (rent is 300-400 eur for a flat in Sofia) * Relatively easy to start companies * It's quite safe, at least safer than Naples from where I am from * Very good quality of food * Close to the seaside (about 3 hours from Greek coast also) * Nice summers…

I hope the new Greek government manages to compete with this, so the next post will advertise Greece in this way. Most of your list applies here as well, except we have amazing food and beaches.

Seconding this.

I was recently for 2 weeks in Santorini, which is considered pretty expensive compared to the rest of Greece, and everything was actually very affordable (esp. if you learn to keep your distance from the more tourist-infested areas).

The whole time during my stay I kept thinking how nice it would be to work from there. Clear blue sky, beaches and fresh grilled fish. Wow.

Re: Bulgaria is the world’s fastest-shrinking country

#54
post #22

Random facts from living 3 months there on why this could be a high potential country: * 10% income tax (second lowest in EU), 5% dividend tax * Very low costs of living (rent is 300-400 eur for a flat in Sofia) * Relatively easy to start companies * It's quite safe, at least safer than Naples from where I am from * Very good quality of food * Close to the seaside (about 3 hours from Greek coast also) * Nice summers…

Some other eastern europe countries are betting similarly. Albania , Northern Macedonia, possibly Serbia and Montenegro will soon join the EU and apply basically the same recipe. They are already attractive destinations for digital nomads and others who want enjoy the benefits of country arbitrage.

But like others said, I m not sure where this leads ... Cheap countries are cheap for a reason.

Re: Bulgaria is the world’s fastest-shrinking country

#55
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope the new Greek government manages to compete with this, so the next post will advertise Greece in this way. Most of your list applies here as well, except we have amazing food and beaches.

As regular visitor, I thought Thessaloniki was already getting some startup pockets around. Also maybe some bigger islands could be advertised on this way, although having to go through Athens for business trips might be a negative selling point (longer trips).

It depends on when you visited, it's really been drained in the past few years :/ I organize the Python meetup in Thessaloniki and basically everyone emigrated. There's no point in even running it any more, every attendee now tells me "I heard there are jobs in computers and I came to check it out".

Re: Bulgaria is the world’s fastest-shrinking country

#56
post #21
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are the tech salaries like in Bulgaria?

Up to net 4000-5000 from what I have heard. Rent is 300-400 eur in the city center. Dinner is 15 euros, lunch 5-8 euros. A decent apartment is 100-150k.

An important point here is that you probably can't get reasonable financing to buy said apartment.

Mortgages in a similar country start from 6%.

Re: Bulgaria is the world’s fastest-shrinking country

#57
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope the new Greek government manages to compete with this, so the next post will advertise Greece in this way. Most of your list applies here as well, except we have amazing food and beaches.

Bulgaria also has amazing food and beaches in my opinion.

Hmm, possibly, I haven't visited extensively but the food in Bansko leaves something to be desired, I hear.

Re: Bulgaria is the world’s fastest-shrinking country

#58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't? You like people not giving a shit and parking in disabled spots/ramps, double-parking everywhere, civil services closing at noon because they have "work to do", employers paying employees starvation wages because it saves them a euro, everyone evading taxes because their pocket is more important than schools and hospitals, contractors padding their invoices by 200% to pocket the money from EU investments,…

> You don't? You like people not giving a shit and parking in disabled spots/ramps, double-parking everywhere, civil services closing at noon because they have "work to do", employers paying employees starvation wages because it saves them a euro, everyone evading taxes because their pocket is more important than schools and hospitals, contractors padding their invoices by 200% to pocket the money from EU investments…

> So basically just like everywhere else in the world.

> You ever been to a Walmart parking lot? Or a DMV?

Have you? Because we visited very different places, if so. Nobody in the US dares to roll past a stop sign, let alone double-park. Merely the fact that you've said this makes me doubt you've ever even been to the US.

Re: Bulgaria is the world’s fastest-shrinking country

#59
post #38
post #12

As a Bulgarian living and working in London for more than a year now, I have no intention of going back. The IT sector in the country is booming and the money you can make relative to the cost of living is insane - you can live like a king. To me that is not enough. Money are not enough to make me go back, even though I miss my friends and family. One of the biggest problems for me is that the country is stuck in thi…

How does the politics and whatever people are saying affect your day to day life though? If you can make 10k a month there and buy a flat for 15k, in a few years you don't even need to work anymore. Why would you not even consider living there? Maybe as the old saying: familiarity breeds contempt

The problem is everything you own can evaporate. 5 years ago we had "the bank of the year" go insolvent in the most ridiculous way, followed by the dumbest cover-up you've ever seen.

Cheaper flats like 15k are almost certainly a scam, and unless you are paying a high monthly bribe for "maintenance" you may get a letter from the local authority that your papers are not in order and the building has to be demolished or otherwise fix your newfound legal issues with the land/permits. Things like that are very common in rural areas.

In bigger cities there are other scams and other rules to follow. Apparently another scam with fake POAs or corrupt judicial enforcers is picking up pace these days too.

Re: Bulgaria is the world’s fastest-shrinking country

#60
post #7

Just got reminded of a funny sketch by Foil Arms and Hog I've seen a few days ago. It's about the Irish "emigration police" that tries to stop people from leaving the country. Emigration Police (The Brain Drain) - Foil Arms and Hog https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZcAH4vyCZE Funnily enough, a lot of Croats are actually emigrating to Ireland.

It's interesting how FA&H seem to be quite popular in Croatia... ;)
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