Drone pilots could be experiencing 'sniper's syndrome' • Hacker News Board

Re: Drone pilots could be experiencing 'sniper's syndrome'

#101

Post by glloydell » Mon, Sep 30, 2019, 4:22 PM UTC

glogla wrote: post #93

dang wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't throw your humanity away.

I guess that's debatable. I would say that even humans who decided to become monsters (say, Unit 731, Mengele, Breivik, various serial killers, etc) deserve human rights and humane treatment in eyes of the law, because taking those away is a bad precedent for society. The state should consider them people because the state has to consider everyone people, and making exceptions is very dangerous. That doesn't mean we…

You don't have to, but doing so is a strategy to prevent yourself from going down that same path.

When you cast people into the realm of inhuman monster, you're also telling yourself a story that there is no possible way that you could potentially commit the same acts.

Which is, 99% of the time, a total lie. Humans are exceptionally good at creating moral justification for whatever the hell we want to do.

If you're convinced you are constitutionally incapable of committing monstrous acts, then you're not likely to engage in the self reflection that would allow you to catch yourself if you start heading down that path.

Re: Drone pilots could be experiencing 'sniper's syndrome'

#102

Post by anigbrowl » Mon, Sep 30, 2019, 4:48 PM UTC

glloydell wrote: post #99

anigbrowl wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am perfectly comfortable judging people on the basis of the actions they willingly carry out. People who are at absolutely zero physical risk from the people they are directly and personally responsible for killing are morally culpable in my view, and I am not obliged to care about them.

I'm inferring from your statement that you believe that the only justified use of deadly force is a situation where someone is themselves at risk of physical harm, is that accurate? As far as caring for them, I don't think anyone is obliged to care for anyone or anything (free will and all that). I do think that the more people that you choose to place into your own personal out-group of "gofuckthemselves", the more…

Your concern is touching. If only you had any left over for innocent people killed or bereaved with no warning, by people whose might at worst suffer some psychic pain pursuant their own actions.

Re: Drone pilots could be experiencing 'sniper's syndrome'

#103

Post by anigbrowl » Mon, Sep 30, 2019, 6:04 PM UTC

golergka wrote: post #98

anigbrowl wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been in multiple life and death situations thanks, and I am acutely aware of the complex calculus of war. I don't think drone warfare should be used against civilian targets, military ones are OK. If you want to assassinate people outside of regular military conflict, do it in person.

The entire point is being unsure if the target is civilian or a military one.

You know what definitely is a valid military target? The drone operators and the facilities they work out of.

If you care about them so much, maybe you should bend your efforts to reducing their moral culpability and think about the strategic logic of the entire mission, which has now killed 10 times more Afghan civilians than died on 9/11, in a country with 1/10 the population of ours, so as to lower the probability of their being selected as a target.

How much longer is the US going to continue trying to win hearts and minds by throwing the most highly equipped military force on the planet at lightly armed peasants, while ignoring the fact that they probably feel just as pissed off about their friends, family, and selves being blown up as we do about ours, and by now have suffered far more than the original injury we are still attempting to retaliate for?

There are now kids old enough to sign up for the military who were born after 9/11 and for whom the US has always been at war with Afghanistan, and your moral gymnastics serve only to perpetuate that while foreclosing any inquiry they might conduct as citizens rather than soldiers.

Re: Drone pilots could be experiencing 'sniper's syndrome'

#104

Post by tehjoker » Tue, Oct 01, 2019, 4:57 PM UTC

glloydell wrote: post #52

tehjoker wrote: post #5

Love how the perspective of this argument is that instead of drone pilots succumbing to a real sense that what they are doing is unjustifiable, this guy is an "ethicist" that is attempting to say that we need to find a way to train morality out of people so they can push remote kill buttons and feel fine.

I don't think that's the argument the author was making: "Further, there needs to be proper counselling and supports for pilots following use of lethal force. While such pilots might be removed from physical risks, we have a moral responsibility to ensure not just that drones are used in ways that adhere to the ethics of warfare, but that the pilots are adequately supported in their roles."

Open question: why are we done bombing people again? I can't think of anything that is remotely justifiable. Even the "terrorists" excuse comes back to US bombings creating terrorists.

Re: Drone pilots could be experiencing 'sniper's syndrome'

#105

Post by glloydell » Wed, Oct 02, 2019, 1:44 AM UTC

anigbrowl wrote: post #102

glloydell wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm inferring from your statement that you believe that the only justified use of deadly force is a situation where someone is themselves at risk of physical harm, is that accurate? As far as caring for them, I don't think anyone is obliged to care for anyone or anything (free will and all that). I do think that the more people that you choose to place into your own personal out-group of "gofuckthemselves", the more…

Your concern is touching. If only you had any left over for innocent people killed or bereaved with no warning, by people whose might at worst suffer some psychic pain pursuant their own actions.

The immediate and generational trauma and pain that's being caused by this violence is fucking horrendous and something that enrages and saddens me.

I choose to focus my ire on those responsible for creating the policies and making the decisions to create the situation, not the people at the bottom of the ladder who are responsible for enacting them.

I find your lack of empathy disturbing.