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Federal Judge Upholds Harvard's Race-Conscious Admissions Process

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Re: Federal Judge Upholds Harvard's Race-Conscious Admissions Process

#441

Post by dang »

oarabbus_ wrote: post #416
microcolonel wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that a strong argument for class as a better means for analysis? I mean, if they're so interlinked, why not avoid the pitfalls of racialism?

There are people alive today who's parents or grandparents lived for a time without civil rights. I don't think disregarding their experience is the correct direction to take.

It looks like you've crossed into using HN primarily for political and ideological battle. That destroys the spirit of curiosity that HN exists for, and is against the site guidelines. Ditto for comments that cross into being nasty, like https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20942577 and https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21128710 and, unfortunately, others you've posted.

Would you please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and take the intended spirit of this place more to heart? We'd appreciate it.

Re: Federal Judge Upholds Harvard's Race-Conscious Admissions Process

#442

Post by Anechoic »

rohit2412 wrote: post #417
habnds wrote: post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No but it might be possible that an African american with the same grades as an asian american is much more likely to be successful in the future because they got the same results from what is likely a much more difficult starting point. The context of someone's acheivements matters and race is part of that context.

But if it's starting position you're worried about, you'd be worried about class. You would give affirmative action based on economic status, not race. That I would agree with.

You would give affirmative action based on economic status, not race

But race also matters in terms of starting position.

Re: Federal Judge Upholds Harvard's Race-Conscious Admissions Process

#443

Post by vageli »

balls187 wrote: post #399
tomschlick wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is when the courts say as a temporary measure its ok. You have to define temporary or else it just becomes de-facto permanent.

> You have to define temporary or else it just becomes de-facto permanent. Perhaps, once it becomes settled law. However given Roe v Wade is still up for debate means that defacto permanence is not really a problem. The answer then is "When the supreme court decides that the argument presented is sufficient to warrant no longer allowing race-concious admissions is a factor."

> > You have to define temporary or else it just becomes de-facto permanent.

> Perhaps, once it becomes settled law. However given Roe v Wade is still up for debate means that defacto permanence is not really a problem.

> The answer then is "When the supreme court decides that the argument presented is sufficient to warrant no longer allowing race-concious admissions is a factor."

Are new Roe v Wade like cases being heard by the court? There's a chilling effect to people bringing these cases to consider.

Re: Federal Judge Upholds Harvard's Race-Conscious Admissions Process

#444

Post by mfer »

javagram wrote: post #146
mfer wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While IANAL... There is a difference between general admission and "programs or activities that receive Federal financial assistance". While I'm not saying this is right, it appears to be the current letter of the law. If, for example, race were a determining factor in who works on one of the R&D projects at Harvard that is funded by federal money it would be different than this situation. Does each student at Harvar…

Almost every college is subject to this law because they accept federal grants and loans for students during the admissions process. There are only a few conservative religious schools that are exceptions. They refuse all federal funds to prevent such laws applying. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grove_City_College_v._Bell

Thanks for the pointer. It also says...

> However, the Court also held that the regulation would apply only to the institution's financial aid department, not to the school as a whole.

Re: Federal Judge Upholds Harvard's Race-Conscious Admissions Process

#445

Post by buboard »

wendyshu wrote: post #250
buboard wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering that a degree opens doors to employment, not giving them the degree (all other things being equal) is guaranteed to result to hiring discrimination

I.e. Asians who went to Harvard will be seen as extra desirable because they had higher admission requirements?

wouldnt that be illegal hiring discrimination?

Re: Federal Judge Upholds Harvard's Race-Conscious Admissions Process

#446

Post by golemiprague »

rohit2412 wrote: post #414
dwoozle wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A grades and SAT admission model creates a class that is ~70% Asian. America’s future leadership class is categorically not 70% Asian.

Why not? If Asians are hardworking enough to occupy 70% of the top positions, why not?

Because leadership or success in life in general or creativity is not only about sitting at home and studying after school. It is one factor but there are multiple of other factors. The fact is that we don't see anything special from all those hard working Asians, that's the bottom line, they are good for some type of upper middle class maybe. The Asian success is a glitch in the high school system that awards hard work over talent, social skills and creativity, but Harvard is a bit smarter than that and they know nothing interesting will come out from someone who just ticked boxes and put extra 4 hours a day into studying and violin lessons.

Re: Federal Judge Upholds Harvard's Race-Conscious Admissions Process

#447

Post by hackinthebochs »

tathougies wrote: post #145
akhilcacharya wrote: post #62

Nobody is entitled to go to Harvard and focusing on one institution does a disservice to folks (including Asian Americans like myself) who didn’t get into any elite institutions unlike many of the plaintiffs

Indeed no one is entitled to go to Harvard, but Harvard is also not entitled to federal research grants that are being funded by taxing Asian Americans under the same laws as other Americans, so I guess we are at an impasse.

>but Harvard is also not entitled to federal research grants

There is no entitlement. The government is purchasing research for the money. There is no obvious connection between Harvard's undergrad admissions practices and the money Harvard gets for research.

Re: Federal Judge Upholds Harvard's Race-Conscious Admissions Process

#449

Post by senderista »

fortran77 wrote: post #335
xenihn wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Arabs, Armenians, North Africans, and Persians are all considered white in the US.

Not according to many people on the Left. Congresswoman Tlaib, for example, identifies herself as a "Woman of Color" ( https://thehill.com/homenews/house/429550-tlaib-people-hear-... ). My maternal grandparents were born in Gaza City, and Syria respectively. Grandmother was expelled Gaza in 1929, and the Syrian grandfather was expelled from Syria in 1927. Both families had been there for many generations, if not sinc…

I have never seen a coherent definition of POC. It seems to be based entirely on political expediency.

Re: Federal Judge Upholds Harvard's Race-Conscious Admissions Process

#450

Post by hourislate »

throwawaysea wrote: post #12

This ruling is a travesty and I hope the Supreme Court overturns it when this is appealed. It is very clear that race-conscious admissions are systematically racist and discriminatory. Take a look at the distribution of students by race in the University of California system, where they're not permitted to discriminate in this manner, thanks to Prop 209 ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_California_Proposition_20..…

The real travesty after this is overturned is that that judge will still be sitting and practicing law.

If a higher court overturns your decision, then there should be consequences.

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