Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests • Hacker News Board

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#691

Post by behringer » Tue, Oct 01, 2019, 7:36 PM UTC

Sandman wrote: post #579

CapricornNoble wrote: post #507

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>>Do you honestly think people would have any chance against probably the most powerful army in the world? You are placing waaaay too much faith in technology. Look at the Saudis: one of the worlds highest military budgets, and stockpiles of first-rate western hardware.....they are getting absolutely routed by Houthis, who run up desert mountains with just sandals, an AK, and a mouth full of stimulants. >>>Sure, the…

> I suspect you don't know actual American military personnel very well, especially officers and NCOs, and how seriously we take the Laws of Warfare, AND the Constitution. You're right, I don't. But, if Americans don't need to fear that they'll have to fight the US Army, why have the 2nd amendment at all? Who would they need to protect themselves against?

Rioters, rogue police, vigilantes, rogue militas, nazis, militaries commanded by those that are not upholding the constitution. Honestly your argument makes it more sensible that we should open up restrictions and allow more lethal weapons.

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#692

Post by glenstein » Tue, Oct 01, 2019, 7:37 PM UTC

daenz wrote: post #517

diminoten wrote: post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you've thought this through; you won't be fighting soldiers in your little quest for rebellion, you'll be fighting your neighbor, because your neighbor thinks you're a fucking dumbass who he'd rather kill than reason with, because of how little you've respected honest discourse and conversation over a long period of time. To create an American insurgency would be to threaten everyone around you, and no…

>you'll be fighting your neighbor, because your neighbor thinks you're a fucking dumbass who he'd rather kill than reason with, because of how little you've respected honest discourse and conversation over a long period of time. I normally wouldn't respond to a post like this, but if you are thinking about hurting people that you disagree with, please seek out some help. This sentence honestly reads like a warning fl…

They are talking about violence that you yourself had posited would be occurring in the context of an armed insurgency, which is a hypothetical that you posed. You're now twisting their response to your own example into something you're interpreting as a generalized wish for violence on people they disagree with, totally ignoring of the context of the conversation up to this point.

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#693

Post by 0xADADA » Tue, Oct 01, 2019, 7:37 PM UTC

nvahalik wrote: post #18

> Imagine if the US suddenly had a dictator This is why we have the second amendment. And the constitution as the thing to which office-holders swear allegiance to rather than to "the party" or "the president".

Police shoot & kill unarmed people in the United States every. fucking. day.

2019: Jeremy Connolly, Wallace Wilder, Bobby Ray Moore, Raymond Lewis Williams, Channara Tom Pheap, Dennis Carolino, Chad Michael Breinholt, Riley Eugene Peay, Michael Tuck, James Crowe, Amari Malone, Michael Lopez, Jared R. Nelson, Schaston Theodore Lamarr Hodge, Mike Parsley, Uzzle Jerome, Rashad Cunningham, Jovany Mercado-Bedolla, Jamie Fernandez, William Lloyd Jones, Thomas Michael Reynolds, Cole Steele Jessup, Charles Roy Pearson, Anthony Wayne French, Jerry Orlando Weaver, David Ingle, Scott Souders, Aaron Luther, Cole Steele Jessup, John Michael George, Freddrick Andrews Hadden, Manuel Charles Carter, Mark Johnson, Jose Mendez, Jason Xavier Salas, An unidentified person, Kevin Jenkins, Toussaint Diamon Sims, Detravian Allison, Donald Babbit, Allan George, William Biggs, Kaizen Crossen, Derrick Davidson, Marvin Alexis Urbina, James Lee Kirkwood, Riche Antonio Santiago, Marvin Urbina, Robert Clay Wilsford, Connor Betts, Aigon Andrew Wallace, Cortney Ronald Staley, John Clark, Oscar Ventura-Gonzalez, De'Von Bailey, Deshon Downing, Mario Benjamin, Delano Williams, Lenny Blaine Griffin, David Willoughby, Eric Toon, Margarita Victoria Brooks, Andre Leach, Jamaal Simpson

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#694

Post by mav3rick » Tue, Oct 01, 2019, 7:38 PM UTC

program_whiz wrote: post #13

Sure, the kid was swinging at the officer, and I suppose that warrants the officer acting in self-defense. But another question is, what are the protesters supposed to do? The government has all the power, and can simply snuff out any resistence. If you just stand in the streets, they really don't care, they are going to take your freedom. Imagine if the US suddenly had a dictator that just decided they were going to…

Do you know about Gandhi's nonviolence and civil disobedience movement ? Not saying this is what's required right now. But ultimately it was that that turned the British public opinion and the Crown was forced to withdraw from the colonies.

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#695

Post by CompanionCuuube » Tue, Oct 01, 2019, 7:38 PM UTC

ixtli wrote: post #106

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What are a couple of rednecks with assault rifles (which arguably they shouldn't be able to purchase anyway) going to do against semi-autonomy kill droids being flown from a bunker in the desert? The point is to increase the cost of violence against the population. The Swiss bunker / guerrilla strategy. Also, there is no reason to suspect asymmetric vectors like autonomous drone armies would accrue solely to state…

In my experience when these people are made the least bit uncomfortable in any social situation they immediately call the police. They're not who they pretend to be online.

Ironic, their first inclination is to call people who have the "murder guns" that they complain heavily about.

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#696

Post by mav3rick » Tue, Oct 01, 2019, 7:39 PM UTC

cwkoss wrote: post #580

nvahalik wrote: post #18

> Imagine if the US suddenly had a dictator This is why we have the second amendment. And the constitution as the thing to which office-holders swear allegiance to rather than to "the party" or "the president".

I think it is unfortunate that so many Americans don't know about the history of the Black Panthers. In US public school system, we are taught that the Civil Rights Act was won through peaceful marching - this is not the whole story. Black Panthers carried guns to protect protests, and having guns created a situation where cops could not rush in and beat dissent into submission. There is a strong argument that withou…

Most people want stricter background checks. If you pass the checks it's fine. No one is taking away your guns.

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#697

Post by CharlesColeman » Tue, Oct 01, 2019, 7:41 PM UTC

hobofan wrote: post #591

jhedwards wrote: post #530

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of my point is that this is being done by the CCP. If you want to say the CCP doesn't have ethics that's a different argument than "China doesn't have ethics", and I don't think that's too pedantic too point out.

I think that distinction is already sufficiently implied. China/ == The government of China/ and The Chinese == The inhabitants of China

> I think that distinction is already sufficiently implied.

No, it's not.

> China/ == The government of China/

> and

> The Chinese == The inhabitants of China

I've had some rather deep political conversations with a few Chinese people, and it's my understanding that education there doesn't stress the distinction between the Chinese nation and the Chinese government. So, using the word "China" to condemn the government can will often be interpreted as condemning the nation and does encourages ordinary Chinese to stand by their government, right or wrong. Don't do that.

If you want to condemn the Chinese government, name the CCP (Chinese Communist Party) in your condemnations, for clarity's sake.

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#698

Post by magduf » Tue, Oct 01, 2019, 7:41 PM UTC

X6S1x6Okd1st wrote: post #469

magduf wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not insane, but it would be a horrible and bloody hot war, the likes of which we haven't seen since WWII, and it would probably eclipse WWII in total deaths. But it's not "insane", because we have precedent for it: it's exactly what happened in WWII: the world's largest economies and industrial powers going into an all-out war, culminating in nuclear attack, and resulting in the deaths of tens of millions. It's…

Nuclear states don't attack other nuclear states for a reason. NYC, LA, DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Huston, Dallas are all potential targets if the US declares war. Most of the US army would be going to war with no home to go back to.

If China did a nuclear attack, the US Army wouldn't be involved at all in any war. They'd sit back while the US Air Force and Navy completely nuked China. There wouldn't be an invasion because there'd be nothing left to invade at that point, so no army would be needed.

Remember, the US's nuclear arsenal is far, far larger than China's. Such a conflict would be devastating to the US (and to many other places due to fallout), but China would cease to exist.

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#699

Post by carapace » Tue, Oct 01, 2019, 7:42 PM UTC

jhedwards wrote: post #530

SimbaOnSteroids wrote: post #500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you kill political dissidents and harvest their organs as part of an active genocide campaign, you lose any claim at behaving ethically. Ethics are measured by the actions you take that you'd rather not advertise.

Part of my point is that this is being done by the CCP. If you want to say the CCP doesn't have ethics that's a different argument than "China doesn't have ethics", and I don't think that's too pedantic too point out.

Do the people going to the clinics for life-saving organ transplants know that the organs are coming from prisoners who do not give them up voluntarily?

Where did the CCP get all the doctors and nurses who carry out the vivisections and transplantations?

I don't want to engage in what I call the "calculus of evil".

I wonder how many Americans would fly to China to get organs to save their lives knowing where the organs come from.

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#700

Post by jammygit » Tue, Oct 01, 2019, 7:43 PM UTC

cwkoss wrote: post #664

homonculus1 wrote: post #641

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Any discussion of gun control in America must account for the self-defense rights of Americans who do not have adequate protection from the police. Not to detract from your excellent point but when it comes to personal defense against crime, this applies to everyone who doesn't have private security. Even if the police are 100% on your side, they can't help you if they aren't at your side. When seconds count, the co…

I agree. Similarly, most people who live in rural areas also have a need for guns to protect themselves adequately - from animals as well as malicious people - as police and other state protection can be an hour or more away when they try to respond rapidly. I prefer to focus on the Black Panthers use case because there is an interesting cognitive dissonance in the modern left in that anti-racism and gun control are…

As a Canadian, I’m always confused at how safe Americans think a gun makes them when in the woods.

Guns are not a good defence against many wild animals. Get some bear spray, it is dramatically more effective and will not kill somebody as easily if you accidentally shoot a person in the dark!

Point taken about the civil rights marches though