Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests • Hacker News Board

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#651

Post by philipkglass » Tue, Oct 01, 2019, 7:11 PM UTC

new2628 wrote: post #534

uoaei wrote: post #520

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reticence of politicians to address climate change is strongly correlated with their age. Of course there are outliers but it seems clear that "I'm not going to be alive when the shit hits the fan" does a lot to assuage existential anxieties related to climate change.

Blaming the elderly here seems misguided to me. I suspect the lifestyle of an average 20-year-old today puts much more burden on the environment/climate than the lifestyle of their parents in their twenties. ADD: The amount of time each spends _talking_ about climate change is a different matter of course.

At least with regard to Americans, your suspicion is incorrect.

American CO2 emissions per capita reached their highest level in the 1970s and declined later:

https://knoema.com/atlas/United-States-of-America/CO2-emissi...

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#652

Post by new2628 » Tue, Oct 01, 2019, 7:12 PM UTC

uoaei wrote: post #617

new2628 wrote: post #534

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blaming the elderly here seems misguided to me. I suspect the lifestyle of an average 20-year-old today puts much more burden on the environment/climate than the lifestyle of their parents in their twenties. ADD: The amount of time each spends _talking_ about climate change is a different matter of course.

Comparing the behavior of people now to people 20-40 years ago seems dishonest. Many new technologies have prevailed since then, and cultures around consumption have rapidly shifted. We should consider instead the current consumption habits of both cohorts for an appropriate comparison.

I don't think the climate cares much about our technologies and cohorts. A ton of CO2 is a ton of CO2. Since you claimed I was arguing dishonestly, I withdraw from the discussion.

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#653

Post by x86_64Ubuntu » Tue, Oct 01, 2019, 7:14 PM UTC

sixothree wrote: post #628

sergiotapia wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Imagine if the US suddenly had a dictator God bless the 2nd amendment dude. This is one of the greatest gifts the founding fathers gave the US.

Imagine for a minute what would happen to protesters in America if they acted like those in Hong Kong. Any amount of guns would have been met with overwhelming force and put down with absolute prejudice. We even have laws in more than a handful of states that allows people to run over protesters with their cars and enjoy legal protection. Keep kidding yourself.

When people are celebrating the 2nd in this thread, they are talking about if white middle America was the main composition of the protesters . I guarantee you that none of these 2nd amendment lovers would ever support Ferguson protesters arming themselves, much less deploying lethal force against the police.

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#654

Post by moate » Tue, Oct 01, 2019, 7:14 PM UTC

geggam wrote: post #352

moate wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like to believe that the US government wouldn't fire the first shot, that it would be citizen aggression against them that would spur them into action. But who knows. In the Bundy incident(s) no shots were fired. I believe that's because as much as the Bundy group believe their own bullshit (about land rights and white supremacy and whatnot) they also know that this is a fight about taxation currently and that they…

>The whole incident involve those yahoos is a mess, but a really great example of a militia strong arming the feds (it sucks that the feds screwed the pooch in the trial of the 2016 standoff and let them get off because of procedural misconduct). As I watch our govt in action I think this is the norm and to be expected. I am shocked the judge actually let the Bundy's off TBH. I wonder if it wasn't just an appeasement…

From my understanding it was pretty basic "Prosecution didn't do their job, and they did they're job SO poorly I have to dismiss this because everyone is staring at me because this is such a high profile case" situation.

High profile cases like that are high risk high reward for the prosecution. You can't let private militias start dictating how the country works, but you also can't fire up extremists and provide sympathy for their cause.

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#655

Post by jhowell » Tue, Oct 01, 2019, 7:14 PM UTC

nvahalik wrote: post #18

> Imagine if the US suddenly had a dictator This is why we have the second amendment. And the constitution as the thing to which office-holders swear allegiance to rather than to "the party" or "the president".

How is the right to bear arms going to help me if the government decides to use RPGs, helicopters, aircraft or submarines, or take away communications? Seems like a thin firewall.

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#656

Post by jolotriage » Tue, Oct 01, 2019, 7:15 PM UTC

nvahalik wrote: post #18

> Imagine if the US suddenly had a dictator This is why we have the second amendment. And the constitution as the thing to which office-holders swear allegiance to rather than to "the party" or "the president".

In the US, a police officer would be justified in killing this protestor for the same action or less. Freedom to physically attack police is something we don't have.

I don't think the second amendment enters into the equation.

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#657

Post by api » Tue, Oct 01, 2019, 7:15 PM UTC

paul_milovanov wrote: post #440

api wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China is the world's #1 carbon emitter, the top emitter per GDP, and has over 200gw of new coal still planned. (For scale, California consumes about 50gw on a hot day.) So they are not even unrelated problems. China is also the top source of plastic in the ocean. Tangent but: the way China turned out has IMHO been the major factor in the collapse of the post cold war neoliberal narrative in the West. The idea was tha…

That carbon emitted is largely from the manufacturing of cheap products that you consumed. Western countries have offshored both manufacturing and the associated pollution to a country more concerned about pulling its people out of poverty than about its environment. The ocean plastic is partly from these industrial processes and partly because western countries have exported most of their plastic waste to China for…

Per capita emissions is not the right metric. It seems like it should be, but if you compare by that metric you're really measuring poverty below a certain threshold. A poor nation might have low CO2 per capita just because it's poor, but what production they do have could be fantastically inefficient (and often is due to old technology). As they climb out of poverty, as all seem to be doing, they'll become huge emitters.

Emissions per GDP is probably the best we have as GDP is a decent proxy for productivity, making it a real measure of efficiency. If the goal is to actually reduce emissions the goal must be to reduce CO2 emitted per unit of productivity, so you want to emulate the wealthier nations that have low CO2/GDP scores. That means emulating policies like renewable energy, efficiency standards, well designed cities, etc.

China is (last I looked) the least efficient large economy in terms of pollution per GDP. The USA is toward the middle of the pack.

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#658

Post by SimbaOnSteroids » Tue, Oct 01, 2019, 7:15 PM UTC

takamh wrote: post #634

netsharc wrote: post #542

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it whataboutism to mention toddlers in cages here? It seems both governments have their gas chamber moments...

No it's not. This isn't Reddit where any average Joe thinks whataboutism is the answer to any evidence they don't agree with.

Yes it is, the treatment of children at the border is also horrendous, it also has literally nothing to do with china and ethics.

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#659

Post by goblin89 » Tue, Oct 01, 2019, 7:17 PM UTC

tsegratis wrote: post #632

mieseratte wrote: post #578

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A rubber bullet in lower body would have had enough stopping power. No, it wouldn't. I've sustained worse injuries than a rubber bullet and remained fighting. A bat to the head is a lethal assault. Using a firearm against such an assailant is completely justified. This has nothing to do with pro / anti CCP feelings. As far as I'm concerned the CCP should be eliminated. Your assertion is devoid of any reality.

Shooting to kill a 16yr old instead of getting beaten up is justified?? Not where I'm from -- The only way to end such confrontation is simplistically to love your enemy; or at least stop being quite so mean ;) Edit: I've never been shot or faced those injuries, but I've certainly been in worse situations than that police officer. So just on that basis that I'm judging his actions

> instead if getting beaten up

To be fair, the comment you’re responding to is implying worse outcome than getting beaten up, claiming that the kid & his weapon posed lethal danger to an officer who was defenseless on the ground at the moment.

I do agree with the sentiment though

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#660

Post by UIZealot » Tue, Oct 01, 2019, 7:17 PM UTC

spacehunt wrote: post #599

UIZealot wrote: post #560

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> After months of protests. It was suspended almost immediately after initial protests. > self destructive bill That's a stretch. Personally I believe Ms. Lam proposed it out of good faith. It was too naive perhaps, and did not include adequate protection for Hong Kong citizens. It never would have survived the legco anyway, never mind the protests. Regarding one country, two systems. The Chinese government, to its c…

I'm sorry but: - The last round of Legislative Council elections during British rule was effectively by universal suffrage.[1] No LegCo elections after the handover have been comparable. - During British rule, there were also municipal councils and again, council members were eventually elected by universal suffrage. After the handover the entire municipal council system was abolished. - Also during British rule, the…

Any broadening of rights after the signing of the Sino-British Joint Declaration is suspect. These are ploys to alienate the Hong Kong people from China (離間計). They are what we call 陽謀, ploys we will nevertheless fall for even though we know they're ploys.

Know your history. How had the British treated the Hong Kong people throughout its history as a colony? How has China treated the Hong Kong people? Honestly?

(EDIT: Honestly, people?)