Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests • Hacker News Board

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#401

Post by umvi » Tue, Oct 01, 2019, 4:38 PM UTC

parliament32 wrote: post #377

loquor wrote: post #349

This might sound alarmist, but do you think China is the biggest upcoming global problem after climate change? For two reasons: 1. China has a totalitarian ruling system. They intend to realize George Orwell's 1984. 2. Present-day China essentially has no ethics. Take the US in comparison. No matter how perverse the people in power become and even if they do messed up things, the US has some founding morals and princ…

I'm usually not a huge fan of the US rolling in and stomping out governments (and installing their own, of course), but this is one faux-dictatorship where it sorely needs to happen. Some actual democracy would be amazing for these people. With the recent "trade war" and whatnot the stage has been set pretty well for a US intervention.

You can't force democracy upon people that don't want it and aren't ready for it - it ends disastrously. The US tried to do that in the middle east and failed miserably.

The only success story seems to be South Korea, but I would argue they wanted democracy and fought alongside the US for it.

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#402

Post by coryfklein » Tue, Oct 01, 2019, 4:38 PM UTC

lazyguy2 wrote: post #269

Fezzik wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always find this sentiment a little silly - if the US President went in to full dictator mode and had the support of the military, do you really think a militia of armed citizens would be anything but gnats against the windshield of the United States Armed Forces? And if s/he did not have the support of the Armed Forces, it would not be a very effective dictatorship and you would not even need guns for a rebellion.…

> do you really think a militia of armed citizens would be anything but gnats against the windshield of the United States Armed Forces? Yes, absolutely. If it's a true revolt. The reason for this is because if the rebels have support of the population then they can get intelligence and material support from said population. They will be able to walk circles around military bureaucracy. Were as the USA Military is dep…

> if the rebels have support of the population

That's a big if. How many Arab Spring revolutions crumbled under this assumption?

Besides, look at today's political climate - the majority of gun owners are backing the man who is the most authoritarian. You don't have to be worried about a gun owning populace if they're "voting" for you already.

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#403

Post by sjwright » Tue, Oct 01, 2019, 4:39 PM UTC

Ancalagon wrote: post #390

daenz wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The 2nd amendment made a lot of sense when weaponry consisted of horses and rifles, not computer-guided missiles. Let me make sure I understand your basic premise: the ability to defend yourself against a tyrannical dictatorship made sense until the government developed better technology, now it's pointless so just give up your guns? Aside from being completely contrary to the American spirit of defending yourself f…

Well said, I am very tired of these blasé remarks about the second amendment. Sure, the people don’t have tanks, but when the people and the guns out number the tanks 1000:1, and the tank driver doesn’t really want to fight, and those 1000 guns are all playing geurrilla tactics, I like to imagine the people stand a chance.

And if you could keep all your guns safely locked away until then, that would be great.

–thanks, everyone else.

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#404

Post by sjwright » Tue, Oct 01, 2019, 4:41 PM UTC

Fezzik wrote: post #168

nvahalik wrote: post #18

> Imagine if the US suddenly had a dictator This is why we have the second amendment. And the constitution as the thing to which office-holders swear allegiance to rather than to "the party" or "the president".

I always find this sentiment a little silly - if the US President went in to full dictator mode and had the support of the military, do you really think a militia of armed citizens would be anything but gnats against the windshield of the United States Armed Forces? And if s/he did not have the support of the Armed Forces, it would not be a very effective dictatorship and you would not even need guns for a rebellion.…

If every gun owner took their ownership as seriously as you, I’d say you had a point. Until then it’s a narrative that doesn’t map to the overwhelming bulk of reality.

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#405

Post by JackRabbitSlim » Tue, Oct 01, 2019, 4:41 PM UTC

Fezzik wrote: post #168

nvahalik wrote: post #18

> Imagine if the US suddenly had a dictator This is why we have the second amendment. And the constitution as the thing to which office-holders swear allegiance to rather than to "the party" or "the president".

I always find this sentiment a little silly - if the US President went in to full dictator mode and had the support of the military, do you really think a militia of armed citizens would be anything but gnats against the windshield of the United States Armed Forces? And if s/he did not have the support of the Armed Forces, it would not be a very effective dictatorship and you would not even need guns for a rebellion.…

Yes.

A) Infrastructure. a huge portion of the US military might is not deployed in the US.

B) Bombings and collateral damage. The military may not give a fuck about the infrastructure of another country but bombing US cities is damaging their own infrastructure. Litterally cutting of their nose to spite their face.

C) Getting soldiers to shoot at other humans is hard. Getting them to shoot at other Americans is even harder.

D) We sure wiped the floor with the Koreans and Vietnamese without the first 3 points right? How hard could a country an order of magnitude larger, with much better armed citizenry be?

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#406

Post by magduf » Tue, Oct 01, 2019, 4:41 PM UTC

baddox wrote: post #393

loquor wrote: post #349

This might sound alarmist, but do you think China is the biggest upcoming global problem after climate change? For two reasons: 1. China has a totalitarian ruling system. They intend to realize George Orwell's 1984. 2. Present-day China essentially has no ethics. Take the US in comparison. No matter how perverse the people in power become and even if they do messed up things, the US has some founding morals and princ…

What policies does China have which are expansionist?

Wanting to take over Taiwan, and trying to take over the South China Sea by building artificial islands and using them as military bases, for starters.

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#407

Post by Ancalagon » Tue, Oct 01, 2019, 4:42 PM UTC

sjwright wrote: post #403

Ancalagon wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well said, I am very tired of these blasé remarks about the second amendment. Sure, the people don’t have tanks, but when the people and the guns out number the tanks 1000:1, and the tank driver doesn’t really want to fight, and those 1000 guns are all playing geurrilla tactics, I like to imagine the people stand a chance.

And if you could keep all your guns safely locked away until then, that would be great. –thanks, everyone else.

I know you were being funny, but I actually wholly agree with this statement. Every gun owner should have safes/locks for their guns.

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#408

Post by onemoresoop » Tue, Oct 01, 2019, 4:42 PM UTC

baddox wrote: post #393

loquor wrote: post #349

This might sound alarmist, but do you think China is the biggest upcoming global problem after climate change? For two reasons: 1. China has a totalitarian ruling system. They intend to realize George Orwell's 1984. 2. Present-day China essentially has no ethics. Take the US in comparison. No matter how perverse the people in power become and even if they do messed up things, the US has some founding morals and princ…

What policies does China have which are expansionist?

China's new silk road comes to mind.

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#409

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Oct 01, 2019, 4:42 PM UTC

Fezzik wrote: post #168

nvahalik wrote: post #18

> Imagine if the US suddenly had a dictator This is why we have the second amendment. And the constitution as the thing to which office-holders swear allegiance to rather than to "the party" or "the president".

I always find this sentiment a little silly - if the US President went in to full dictator mode and had the support of the military, do you really think a militia of armed citizens would be anything but gnats against the windshield of the United States Armed Forces? And if s/he did not have the support of the Armed Forces, it would not be a very effective dictatorship and you would not even need guns for a rebellion.…

[deleted]

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#410

Post by UnFleshedOne » Tue, Oct 01, 2019, 4:42 PM UTC

daenz wrote: post #338

josephdviviano wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact is that the dictator would still win. The rebellious citizenry would live a life of absolute misery, just as those in the middle east do. The 2nd amendment made a lot of sense when weaponry consisted of horses and rifles, not computer-guided missiles. If there was ever a true US dictator, the 2nd amendment would mostly be used by the oppressed to rob, attack, and oppress one another.

>The 2nd amendment made a lot of sense when weaponry consisted of horses and rifles, not computer-guided missiles. Let me make sure I understand your basic premise: the ability to defend yourself against a tyrannical dictatorship made sense until the government developed better technology, now it's pointless so just give up your guns? Aside from being completely contrary to the American spirit of defending yourself f…

Not everyone who has guns, but everyone who resists. Even worst tyranny has some public support usually. And if people who tend to have guns are more inclined to support your flavor of tyranny (because you purpose-built it that way), you side step most of those problems.