Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests • Hacker News Board

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#371

Post by gwbas1c » Tue, Oct 01, 2019, 4:21 PM UTC

Remember the Boston Massacre:

> The Boston Massacre is considered one of the most significant events that turned colonial sentiment against King George III and British Parliamentary authority. John Adams wrote that the "foundation of American independence was laid" on March 5, 1770, and Samuel Adams and other Patriots used annual commemorations (Massacre Day) to encourage public sentiment toward independence. Christopher Monk was the boy who was wounded in the attack and died in 1780, and his memory was honored as a reminder of British hostility.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Massacre#Contribution_t...

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#372

Post by kiba » Tue, Oct 01, 2019, 4:21 PM UTC

loquor wrote: post #349

This might sound alarmist, but do you think China is the biggest upcoming global problem after climate change? For two reasons: 1. China has a totalitarian ruling system. They intend to realize George Orwell's 1984. 2. Present-day China essentially has no ethics. Take the US in comparison. No matter how perverse the people in power become and even if they do messed up things, the US has some founding morals and princ…

Am worried about China imploding(relatively soon) due to their totalitarian system deleting feedback loops and accelerating negative ones.

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#373

Post by javagram » Tue, Oct 01, 2019, 4:22 PM UTC

ivanbakel wrote: post #351

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's pretty much describing the vast bulk of US military. Citizen Soldiers.

In what way are they citizen soldiers? The statistics I can find suggest that active duty personnel majorly out reserve personnel. Active duty personnel cannot be considered citizen soldiers because their service is not compulsory and they are full-time professionals, not merely civilians in service. Reservists might be considered citizen soldiers, if you're a bit loose with the criteria that service must be a compul…

Army Active Duty 472,047

Army National Guard 345,153

Army Reserve 219,054

I believe a significant number of soldiers also only do 4 or 8 years and then return to civilian life, they aren’t a permanent military class like the Roman legions or whatever. As you mention a lot depends on what you consider a “citizen soldier” though.

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#374

Post by gnode » Tue, Oct 01, 2019, 4:22 PM UTC

loquor wrote: post #349

This might sound alarmist, but do you think China is the biggest upcoming global problem after climate change? For two reasons: 1. China has a totalitarian ruling system. They intend to realize George Orwell's 1984. 2. Present-day China essentially has no ethics. Take the US in comparison. No matter how perverse the people in power become and even if they do messed up things, the US has some founding morals and princ…

> They intend to realize George Orwell's 1984.

With advancements in technology (particularly machine learning), I'd say more like a cross between 1984 and Minority Report. E.g. https://mashable.com/2017/07/24/china-ai-crime-minority-repo...

It doesn't get much worse than thought-pre-crime.

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#375

Post by adamsea » Tue, Oct 01, 2019, 4:23 PM UTC

bhupy wrote: post #174

Fezzik wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always find this sentiment a little silly - if the US President went in to full dictator mode and had the support of the military, do you really think a militia of armed citizens would be anything but gnats against the windshield of the United States Armed Forces? And if s/he did not have the support of the Armed Forces, it would not be a very effective dictatorship and you would not even need guns for a rebellion.…

The US (with its support of the military) has been at war in the Middle East for nearly 2 decades now with insurgents. The argument is not that a rebellious citizenry will necessarily win a war, it's that it will draw out a bloody civil war so long and so expensive as to be a form of mutually assured destruction, the risk of which acts as a check in and of itself.

Tell that to Syria.

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#376

Post by tkifnn » Tue, Oct 01, 2019, 4:23 PM UTC

exabrial wrote: post #140

program_whiz wrote: post #13

Sure, the kid was swinging at the officer, and I suppose that warrants the officer acting in self-defense. But another question is, what are the protesters supposed to do? The government has all the power, and can simply snuff out any resistence. If you just stand in the streets, they really don't care, they are going to take your freedom. Imagine if the US suddenly had a dictator that just decided they were going to…

Sadly, right now a US presidential candidate, Beto O’Rourke, is promising to violently remove firearms from law abiding US Citizens.

What's even sadder is that he cites an instance of the government murdering nonviolent protestors as a reason citizens should not have guns.

https://mobile.twitter.com/BetoORourke/status/11772741326748...

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#377

Post by parliament32 » Tue, Oct 01, 2019, 4:23 PM UTC

loquor wrote: post #349

This might sound alarmist, but do you think China is the biggest upcoming global problem after climate change? For two reasons: 1. China has a totalitarian ruling system. They intend to realize George Orwell's 1984. 2. Present-day China essentially has no ethics. Take the US in comparison. No matter how perverse the people in power become and even if they do messed up things, the US has some founding morals and princ…

I'm usually not a huge fan of the US rolling in and stomping out governments (and installing their own, of course), but this is one faux-dictatorship where it sorely needs to happen. Some actual democracy would be amazing for these people.

With the recent "trade war" and whatnot the stage has been set pretty well for a US intervention.

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#378

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Oct 01, 2019, 4:24 PM UTC

Fezzik wrote: post #168

nvahalik wrote: post #18

> Imagine if the US suddenly had a dictator This is why we have the second amendment. And the constitution as the thing to which office-holders swear allegiance to rather than to "the party" or "the president".

I always find this sentiment a little silly - if the US President went in to full dictator mode and had the support of the military, do you really think a militia of armed citizens would be anything but gnats against the windshield of the United States Armed Forces? And if s/he did not have the support of the Armed Forces, it would not be a very effective dictatorship and you would not even need guns for a rebellion.…

[deleted]

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#379

Post by filoleg » Tue, Oct 01, 2019, 4:24 PM UTC

lostlogin wrote: post #101

Redoubts wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's certainly not a win for the US there.

Or for the people there. Is it possible that all sides lost?

I mean, the major difference is that with the Afghanistan, the US troops just get to return back home after fighting in the disaster that Afghanistan has become. I think it would be a bit more different when you have nowhere else to come back to, other than the place you just unsuccessfully destabilized and ravaged.

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#380

Post by dragonwriter » Tue, Oct 01, 2019, 4:24 PM UTC

javagram wrote: post #361

simonh wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has it ever actually worked?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Revolution

The American Revolution wasn't a citizen uprising, it was a local-government uprising it did rely on citizen militias against professional soldiers, but those citizen militias were the regular security forces of the local governments, which also the central government relied on for local security in routine cases, not counterbalances to them. That's the model the second amendment attempted to preserve, but even with the RKBA alive that model was progressively abandoned and it's last significant remnants were retired decades ago.

And even with that, the American Revolution relied on backing from one of the top two European powers at the time to succeed.