Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests • Hacker News Board

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#201

Post by tfha » Tue, Oct 01, 2019, 3:11 PM UTC

Fezzik wrote: post #168

nvahalik wrote: post #18

> Imagine if the US suddenly had a dictator This is why we have the second amendment. And the constitution as the thing to which office-holders swear allegiance to rather than to "the party" or "the president".

I always find this sentiment a little silly - if the US President went in to full dictator mode and had the support of the military, do you really think a militia of armed citizens would be anything but gnats against the windshield of the United States Armed Forces? And if s/he did not have the support of the Armed Forces, it would not be a very effective dictatorship and you would not even need guns for a rebellion.…

Yes, it would matter. If you don't want to raze your own cities an armed and hostile restiance even in the thousands of people is a massive thorn in your side. If the resistance reaches millions of people you basically don't have control at all. The country is just in a state of heavy war that point

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#202

Post by csomar » Tue, Oct 01, 2019, 3:11 PM UTC

Fezzik wrote: post #168

nvahalik wrote: post #18

> Imagine if the US suddenly had a dictator This is why we have the second amendment. And the constitution as the thing to which office-holders swear allegiance to rather than to "the party" or "the president".

I always find this sentiment a little silly - if the US President went in to full dictator mode and had the support of the military, do you really think a militia of armed citizens would be anything but gnats against the windshield of the United States Armed Forces? And if s/he did not have the support of the Armed Forces, it would not be a very effective dictatorship and you would not even need guns for a rebellion.…

> if the US President went in to full dictator mode and had the support of the military, do you really think a militia of armed citizens would be anything but gnats against the windshield of the United States Armed Forces?

You don't really need militias. If a majority of the people oppose the dictator and the military man are from these families then your coup is going to fail. That's why dictatorships with strong oppositions try to lure a portion of their population against another portion or hire an army from another country.

In a nutshell, the current US army is not going to attack their fellow citizens anytime soon for the eyes of a dictator.

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#203

Post by Consultant32452 » Tue, Oct 01, 2019, 3:11 PM UTC

Fezzik wrote: post #168

nvahalik wrote: post #18

> Imagine if the US suddenly had a dictator This is why we have the second amendment. And the constitution as the thing to which office-holders swear allegiance to rather than to "the party" or "the president".

I always find this sentiment a little silly - if the US President went in to full dictator mode and had the support of the military, do you really think a militia of armed citizens would be anything but gnats against the windshield of the United States Armed Forces? And if s/he did not have the support of the Armed Forces, it would not be a very effective dictatorship and you would not even need guns for a rebellion.…

Guns aren't for taking the military on head first. Guns are for assassinating your neighborhood cop and his entire family for supporting the dictator. The dictator requires lots of small time local support, which is much softer targets. Without it, the dictator can't dictate.

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#204

Post by heavyset_go » Tue, Oct 01, 2019, 3:11 PM UTC

hokumguru wrote: post #120

empath75 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they were armed this would have been over a long time ago. China would have gone in with tanks and the army, or even air strikes. Once you take up arms against the government that’s not a protest, that’s a civil war.

The world would react quite brutally I imagine to another massacre from China - especially one on this potential scale.

China is putting millions of Uighers in concentration camps[1].

The response from the international community has been crickets chirping.

[1] https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/muslims-...

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#205

Post by jacobush » Tue, Oct 01, 2019, 3:11 PM UTC

sokoloff wrote: post #123

ixtli wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From experience, people who are able to live their lives casually collecting weapons here are also able to live pretty disconnected from the reality of these types of situations. We're long, long past a world where a rag tag band of ideologically enfranchised citizens could oppose the police. The fantasy of standing up to The Gubment comes from two things: 1) a rambo fantasy. a serious overestimate of your own skills…

3) a supposition that "if it ever came to that" a meaningful subset of the military and the police would join (and lead) the revolution.

This is the most often overlook aspect. Yes, the government might even lob a few nukes at its own territory of push came to shove, but that would only increase the defections.

A US civil war would be incredibly messy, but it would not be easy to predict any sort of outcome. Everyone would interpret for themselves what "sworn to the constitution" meant for them and pick a side. There would certainly be more than 2 sides too, given how different the 50 states are.

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#206

Post by sergiotapia » Tue, Oct 01, 2019, 3:11 PM UTC

program_whiz wrote: post #13

Sure, the kid was swinging at the officer, and I suppose that warrants the officer acting in self-defense. But another question is, what are the protesters supposed to do? The government has all the power, and can simply snuff out any resistence. If you just stand in the streets, they really don't care, they are going to take your freedom. Imagine if the US suddenly had a dictator that just decided they were going to…

> Imagine if the US suddenly had a dictator

God bless the 2nd amendment dude. This is one of the greatest gifts the founding fathers gave the US.

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#207

Post by HBKXNCUO » Tue, Oct 01, 2019, 3:12 PM UTC

geggam wrote: post #129

ekianjo wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

kill family members of the people in power?

Imagine a person in power with nothing left to lose. Doesnt seem like a person who would make rational choices.

The other politicians who haven't lost their families yet might.

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#208

Post by onepointsixC » Tue, Oct 01, 2019, 3:12 PM UTC

MagnumOpus wrote: post #87

_iyig wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>What are a couple of rednecks with assault rifles (which arguably they shouldn't be able to purchase anyway) going to do against semi-autonomy kill droids being flown from a bunker in the desert? The common refrain goes “about as well as the Taliban,” who currently negotiating an American withdrawal after 18 years of serious U.S. military attention.

> “about as well as the Taliban,” So you mean that living standards drop back by 100 (or 1000) years? But seriously - asymmetric warfare works best against scrupulous adversaries who claim the moral high ground and stop short of "salt the earth" warfare. China doesn't, the CCP won't mind starving out an entire city or state to get them to stop resisting, just like the Soviets didn't.

Two other super powers have tried in Afghanistan without any "moral high ground" and the results have been the same.

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#209

Post by tekkk » Tue, Oct 01, 2019, 3:13 PM UTC

nvahalik wrote: post #18

> Imagine if the US suddenly had a dictator This is why we have the second amendment. And the constitution as the thing to which office-holders swear allegiance to rather than to "the party" or "the president".

It's admirable that Americans hold their 2nd amendment to such high-degree. If only your politicians and people in power weren't such crooks you wouldn't have to fear in the first place. I live in a country near Russia, yet I don't feel a need to keep an assault rifle in my home. I think the reason you are clinging onto your 2nd amendment is mostly purely sentimental, the legacy of your ancestors and their glorious resistance repeated through years of US history lessons. The fact is, you are mostly safe from your "overlords". There isn't and I think won't be any need for a revolution fought with guns. Your rights and freedoms are slowly dwindled away without you even noticing while you are still hanging onto your rifles like shooting down your fellow Americans would make a difference.

It's make-believe, but I guess it makes Americans feel a little special to know that if you elected some dictator you would have a chance to stop them. Your political rulers know far and well that civil war is the last thing anybody wants. Your judicial and political system in place should, before any Hitler came to power, stop them and prevent coup d'état from happening.

It's worrying that we, people living in highly progressive and democratic societies, would have to fear a dictator suddenly coming to power and having to protect ourselves against it. Why anyone would follow such psychopaths and throw away democratic society with free will? But I admit, humans are highly illogical and emotional creatures, that are deep down still driven by the primal urges that are the same as they were thousands of years ago. Just because we dress in fancy suits and dresses doesn't mean we aren't capable of what the Nazis did less than hundred years ago but I'm hopeful that we as species are still slowly progressing.

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#210

Post by dmreedy » Tue, Oct 01, 2019, 3:13 PM UTC

Thriptic wrote: post #154

ixtli wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From experience, people who are able to live their lives casually collecting weapons here are also able to live pretty disconnected from the reality of these types of situations. We're long, long past a world where a rag tag band of ideologically enfranchised citizens could oppose the police. The fantasy of standing up to The Gubment comes from two things: 1) a rambo fantasy. a serious overestimate of your own skills…

I categorically disagree with this. Look at the enormous damage small groups of armed people have imparted on the government even recently. Two delusional guys in Boston shut down the entire city for multiple days and necessitated a state-wide response by blowing up a few pipe bombs, killing a police officer, and going on a car chase. This response cost millions and millions of dollars and resulted in millions of dol…

I wonder how much that has to do with those incidents being (relatively) small, isolated shocks to an otherwise mostly stable, mostly "peaceful" system. Some combination of the government not being "used" to dealing with such activity (unintentional inefficiency), and a desire to "keep the gloves on", as it were, and not raise some kind of optically disproportionate response, like bringing in the national guard (intentional inefficiency).

I wonder what a government response might look like after a few continuous years of dealing with clearly-organized civil unrest and violence. After it, perhaps, decides that waging direct war on its own citizenry is acceptable for the sake of the State. Or that such agitants have forfeited their right to citizenship.