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Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

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Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#61

Post by swebs »

marliechiller wrote: post #5
easytiger wrote: post #4

Obviously China is evil etc etc. But isn't it pretty obvious these people are physically attacking armed officers as they are retreating? And they are beating up and kicking another downed officer in the head? Whilst I might have sympathy for their cause the kid struck an armed officer with a weapon whilst he wielded a gun as his friends beat another armed officer. I have very little sympathy for anyone who makes suc…

i think i saw yesterday though that the Government there is infiltrating the protest groups with agent provocateurs so i dont know what to believe anymore

You "think" you saw? That's not very convincing.

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#62

Post by UIZealot »

pimmen wrote: post #50
foobarian wrote: post #24

Great Britain gave HK back to China. They can do with it as they please - unfortunately I don't see how the protesters can come out on the right side of this without a revolution. Thought experiment: if say Rhode Island had a Muslim majority and they voted themselves Sharia law in violation of federal articles, how cavalier would the federal government / the rest of the populous be in tolerating this?

A better anaology would be if the US implemented extreme Sharia law, how cavalier would people who don't want to live like that be? Hong Kong didn't choose the CCP who didn't even exist yet when the lease was signed. They sure as hell didn't choose to lose their rights to a fair trial and freedom of expression either. So, if you do a thought experiment about protests against the government, keep in mind that the gove…

> A better anaology would be if the US implemented extreme Sharia law, how cavalier would people who don't want to live like that be?

That's a very poor analogy. Hong Kong citizens already enjoy the benefit of an independent legal system and don't have to live like mainland citizens.

> They sure as hell didn't choose to lose their rights to a fair trial and freedom of expression either.

They sure didn't. And they sure haven't lost those rights.

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#63

Post by program_whiz »

mc32 wrote: post #29
program_whiz wrote: post #13

Sure, the kid was swinging at the officer, and I suppose that warrants the officer acting in self-defense. But another question is, what are the protesters supposed to do? The government has all the power, and can simply snuff out any resistence. If you just stand in the streets, they really don't care, they are going to take your freedom. Imagine if the US suddenly had a dictator that just decided they were going to…

Obviously this is very complicated. Protesters have rights but so do police officers —we hope both operate within the bounds of the law and then that politicians would do the work for a compromise. But, it becomes really complicated rather fast when rights get eroded. When the Russians were caught unprepared for war, it wasn’t “right” to send their young conscripts to war with antiquated arms against a modernized for…

Yeah, I don't favor violence against anyone. But also have to question the ethics of someone who would join the police force to take the rights of HK citizenry by force.

But we need compassion for those officers too, likely they didn't have many options, and dropping party loyalty because you're getting squeemish is a recipe for disappearing or at least a life of poverty and suffering (I'm guessing).

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#64

Post by onion2k »

sudhirj wrote: post #30
swarnie_ wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Non-American here, i never really understood your second amendment or how you cling to it in the modern age. What are a couple of rednecks with assault rifles (which arguably they shouldn't be able to purchase anyway) going to do against semi-autonomy kill droids being flown from a bunker in the desert?

Same thing the original Americans did when protesting the massively better trained and armed British Army. Keep their wits about them and keep fighting. If anything the war in Afghanistan has proven that technology is no match for resilience and grit.

Same thing the original Americans did when protesting the massively better trained and armed British Army.

Get saved by the French?

ducks

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#65

Post by pimmen »

UIZealot wrote: post #62
pimmen wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A better anaology would be if the US implemented extreme Sharia law, how cavalier would people who don't want to live like that be? Hong Kong didn't choose the CCP who didn't even exist yet when the lease was signed. They sure as hell didn't choose to lose their rights to a fair trial and freedom of expression either. So, if you do a thought experiment about protests against the government, keep in mind that the gove…

> A better anaology would be if the US implemented extreme Sharia law, how cavalier would people who don't want to live like that be? That's a very poor analogy. Hong Kong citizens already enjoy the benefit of an independent legal system and don't have to live like mainland citizens. > They sure as hell didn't choose to lose their rights to a fair trial and freedom of expression either. They sure didn't. And they sur…

The protest was about the prospect of losing those rights, starting with being subject to mainland laws through extradition. The protest has then expanded to being against the CCP undermining ”one country, two systems” in general, an example of which would be Gui Minhai who’s serving time for a book he published in Hong Kong.

So, I would say the analogy is still apt. The CCP control is being implemented which is what the protesters are against.

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#66

Post by TallGuyShort »

swarnie_ wrote: post #22
nvahalik wrote: post #18

> Imagine if the US suddenly had a dictator This is why we have the second amendment. And the constitution as the thing to which office-holders swear allegiance to rather than to "the party" or "the president".

Non-American here, i never really understood your second amendment or how you cling to it in the modern age. What are a couple of rednecks with assault rifles (which arguably they shouldn't be able to purchase anyway) going to do against semi-autonomy kill droids being flown from a bunker in the desert?

So we should be able control Afghanistan and Iraq pretty quick then, eh?

There have actually been recent cases where federal agents were held off by armed citizens and later deemed to be in the right by the courts. It's not hypothetical.

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#67

Post by potatofarmer45 »

Just like the Yuen Long attack by white shirt triads sparked the current cycle of violence, this will further escalate a dangerous situation. There is a clear difference between fighting with sticks and stones to guns. It is now only a matter of time before somebody shoots a police officer in retaliation and when that happens, violence will spiral out of control.

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#68

Post by chrift »

mc32 wrote: post #47
kristiandupont wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I might be misreading what "increase the threshold" means, but it seems to me that if people were armed, the tanks were more likely to roll in quickly, not less.

I see it the opposite way, the tanks become a last resort. They have to use hard power rather than alternatives.

If citizens had guns, they would be less likely to stick soldiers in front of them without some sort of heavy armour between them. I.e. a tank

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#69

Post by chrift »

sudhirj wrote: post #30
swarnie_ wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Non-American here, i never really understood your second amendment or how you cling to it in the modern age. What are a couple of rednecks with assault rifles (which arguably they shouldn't be able to purchase anyway) going to do against semi-autonomy kill droids being flown from a bunker in the desert?

Same thing the original Americans did when protesting the massively better trained and armed British Army. Keep their wits about them and keep fighting. If anything the war in Afghanistan has proven that technology is no match for resilience and grit.

I'm confused - are you saying that Afghanistan triumphed?

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#70

Post by orf »

mc32 wrote: post #47
kristiandupont wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I might be misreading what "increase the threshold" means, but it seems to me that if people were armed, the tanks were more likely to roll in quickly, not less.

I see it the opposite way, the tanks become a last resort. They have to use hard power rather than alternatives.

You’d think that an armed protest group would mean that the government reacts with _less_ force? Rather than simply deploying an appropriate amount of force to stop them? Because the simple fact is that the government will win in the game of “who has more guns and power”, just as it would in the USA, and there is no way a government would set a precedent that all you need to make it capitulate is wave a gun around.

I’m not saying that the outcome would be the protesters would not be successful, in saying that the government would roll in the tanks immediately and without hesitation.

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