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Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

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Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#41

Post by JumpCrisscross »

swarnie_ wrote: post #22
nvahalik wrote: post #18

> Imagine if the US suddenly had a dictator This is why we have the second amendment. And the constitution as the thing to which office-holders swear allegiance to rather than to "the party" or "the president".

Non-American here, i never really understood your second amendment or how you cling to it in the modern age. What are a couple of rednecks with assault rifles (which arguably they shouldn't be able to purchase anyway) going to do against semi-autonomy kill droids being flown from a bunker in the desert?

> What are a couple of rednecks with assault rifles (which arguably they shouldn't be able to purchase anyway) going to do against semi-autonomy kill droids being flown from a bunker in the desert?

The point is to increase the cost of violence against the population. The Swiss bunker / guerrilla strategy.

Also, there is no reason to suspect asymmetric vectors like autonomous drone armies would accrue solely to state actors.

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#42

Post by tmux314 »

This is not the first time the HKPF has used overt force on a protester, just the first time it has done so publicly. Several protesters have already been "disappeared", and there are many stories coming out of brutal torture against activists. If Beijing authorities have learned one thing from Tiananmen Square, it's that in the internet age violent suppression must happen in private places, where it cannot be recorded by someone's cellphone and shared instantly with the world. Public acts of violence is a PR nightmare and only fans the flames of dissent.

This event will only harden HKers more. In the short term it might prevent mainstream protesters from taking to the streets out of fear of violence. But it will make the average HKer more resentful of Beijing's long arm and empower radical factions. And there are many ways to weaken a government's control outside of public protest.

EDIT: Protester is in critical condition. He was not killed.

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#43

Post by PostPost »

duckMuppet wrote: post #34
PostPost wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Everyone that's read the news in the last few years knows this young people can be shot by police in the US. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Tamir_Rice 2. This link is about what's happening in Hong Kong, not the US, and this sort of what-about-ism isn't informative or helpful.

I'm unsure of how far along HK is in the reintegration prices with China. That being said, there is a strong case to be made that the Chinese have every right to eliminate dissidents and protesters regardless of whether these unscrupulous individuals were assaulting law enforcement, as China generally forbids such activities and these individuals are putting thousands of lives at risk by perpetuating these events. In…

"...there is a strong case to be made that the Chinese have every right to eliminate dissidents and protesters..."

Wow, that's almost like it's something worth protesting for months and months on end. /s

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#44

Post by kristiandupont »

mc32 wrote: post #38
kristiandupont wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If HK'ers had a similar right to carry guns, do you honestly believe that they would be any better off right now?

It’s uncertain what the eventual outcome would be, but one thing is for sure, it would increase the threshold before the tanks rolled in.

I might be misreading what "increase the threshold" means, but it seems to me that if people were armed, the tanks were more likely to roll in quickly, not less.

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#45

Post by pnako »

swarnie_ wrote: post #22
nvahalik wrote: post #18

> Imagine if the US suddenly had a dictator This is why we have the second amendment. And the constitution as the thing to which office-holders swear allegiance to rather than to "the party" or "the president".

Non-American here, i never really understood your second amendment or how you cling to it in the modern age. What are a couple of rednecks with assault rifles (which arguably they shouldn't be able to purchase anyway) going to do against semi-autonomy kill droids being flown from a bunker in the desert?

Same things rednecks from Vietnam, Afghanistan or Yemen would be doing. The second amendment is not exclusive to America. The flag of Mozambique even has an AK-47 on it, for pretty much the same reason.

"Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun" said Mao.

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#46

Post by nodea2345 »

dx87 wrote: post #6

Not to defend what the police have been doing overall during this protest, but in this specific incident you can see the protestors beating a police officer on the ground, and the protestor who got shot was swinging a metal pipe at the police officer that shot him.

Full context is police officers often beat protests during arresting. Sometimes they just fight each other. Anyway, I think the officer have better choices than attempting to kill the kid(shot in chest is obvious willing to kill).

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#47

Post by mc32 »

kristiandupont wrote: post #44
mc32 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s uncertain what the eventual outcome would be, but one thing is for sure, it would increase the threshold before the tanks rolled in.

I might be misreading what "increase the threshold" means, but it seems to me that if people were armed, the tanks were more likely to roll in quickly, not less.

I see it the opposite way, the tanks become a last resort. They have to use hard power rather than alternatives.

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#48

Post by baylearn »

schuke wrote: post #23
program_whiz wrote: post #13

Sure, the kid was swinging at the officer, and I suppose that warrants the officer acting in self-defense. But another question is, what are the protesters supposed to do? The government has all the power, and can simply snuff out any resistence. If you just stand in the streets, they really don't care, they are going to take your freedom. Imagine if the US suddenly had a dictator that just decided they were going to…

I’m from the mainland and totally with HK’s cause. But I do think the violence is at least unnecessary if not detrimental to the movement. If tanks roll in, there’s no point using violence as they’ll be crushed. If they don’t, it seems to me there’s enough space for peaceful protests, which can be even more effectual in many ways. And the people of Hong Kong have shown an incredible amount of creativity in non-violen…

I agree with you. I think the (relatively) success of the movement so far is due to the sheer creative energy of the protester population.

That said I am fine with measured civil disobedience and symbolic destruction of government / quasi-government / tax-payer funded infrastructure when appropriate.

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#50

Post by pimmen »

foobarian wrote: post #24

Great Britain gave HK back to China. They can do with it as they please - unfortunately I don't see how the protesters can come out on the right side of this without a revolution. Thought experiment: if say Rhode Island had a Muslim majority and they voted themselves Sharia law in violation of federal articles, how cavalier would the federal government / the rest of the populous be in tolerating this?

A better anaology would be if the US implemented extreme Sharia law, how cavalier would people who don't want to live like that be?

Hong Kong didn't choose the CCP who didn't even exist yet when the lease was signed. They sure as hell didn't choose to lose their rights to a fair trial and freedom of expression either. So, if you do a thought experiment about protests against the government, keep in mind that the government in question commits some of the worst human rights abuses today.

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