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Facebook to Exempt Opinion and Satire from Fact-Checking

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21–30 of 119 posts

Re: Facebook to Exempt Opinion and Satire from Fact-Checking

#21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go after the argument please. This attempted character assassination is petty and weak.

An argument only holds if its premises are true. "Scott Adams claims X" is very weak evidence for X. He's a cartoonist with a history of making flimsy, self-flattering pronouncements. Let's see some actual research supporting the notion that a third of the population reads and interprets satirical content as straight fact.

You write

> Let's see some actual research

which I find ironic given that you present your personal opinion about that person as if it were a fact. Maybe we should all start cleaning up in front of our own doors first whenever we feel an urge to not criticize (which would be okay) to bad-mouth other people.

In addition, you also do exactly what the comment you replied to ask you not to, seemingly without having given its content any thought whatsoever.

More, Scott Adams didn't say anything here. You merely read a comment from someone making a claim about what he said, in a short sentence. So you don't even have anything from the person you talk about himself. On top of that that claim would not be worth any severe criticism in the given context. Even if it were shown to be wrong, so what? It does not seem to me like anything substantial hinges on it, even if you took it as just a tongue in cheek kind of comment. Anecdotal evidence from reading online forums and discussions seem to indicate that the described phenomenon indeed exists, how many people are involved and if it's always the same ones or not don't seem to me to be of great importance since no quantitative predictions are involved.

Re: Facebook to Exempt Opinion and Satire from Fact-Checking

#22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Scott Adams claims that about 30% of people in a society just do not get humour / satire Satire, snark, and sarcasm have to be least effective way you could possibly choose to communicate. You are absolutely begging to be misunderstood and misquoted, either genuinely or maliciously, and then it's nigh on impossible to explain yourself as all your excuses just sound like like it-was-a-prank-bro . Another huge proble…

Satire is effective influencing method. The additional benefit is avoiding the requirement for reliability and responsibility because it's not real journalism. In the US The Daily Show established satirical ha-ha as effective method to deliver news and discuss politics for younger generations. It started as pure satire but turned into real institution people used to learn about the world. The spinoffs like The Colber…

True, it's easy being cynical at everything and treating everything with irony and contempt (which would be most your latter example)

I think the satirical shows do a better job of being more subtle and not just being cynical at everything

Re: Facebook to Exempt Opinion and Satire from Fact-Checking

#24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Scott Adams also claimed that women are treated with deference for the same reason children and mentally handicapped people are[0], so you'll have to forgive me for not giving too much credence to his unsourced statistics about the incompetence of a large fraction of humanity. [0] https://jezebel.com/dilbert-creator-deletes-misogynist-rant-...

Go after the argument please. This attempted character assassination is petty and weak.

They did go after the argument. The argument was an appeal to authority, and they dismissed the authority with evidence.

When the statement is as outlandish as "30% of people don't understand humor", the burden of proof lies squarely with the person making the claim.

Re: Facebook to Exempt Opinion and Satire from Fact-Checking

#25
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most reporting is based on opinions, or is at least misleading in the sense that it tends to be reported from well defined perspective. The editorial decisions about what to report, what to not report, what to report as important or credible, and what to report as irrelevant or non-credible, can all be used to mislead the audience and misrepresent events. I can’t think of one mainstream news outlet that doesn’t do th…

> The only person who can discern the truth is the individual We're all postmodernists now.

That’s mostly a reductio ad absurdism, but even Plato didn’t believe that people had the potential to be ethical objectivists, and he certainly wasn’t a postmodernist.

Acting as an authority on which instances of political speech are true and which are false may be easier in some cases than others, but there’s no clear place to draw that line, and there’s no way to avoid imposing your own opinions on others.

Re: Facebook to Exempt Opinion and Satire from Fact-Checking

#26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An argument only holds if its premises are true. "Scott Adams claims X" is very weak evidence for X. He's a cartoonist with a history of making flimsy, self-flattering pronouncements. Let's see some actual research supporting the notion that a third of the population reads and interprets satirical content as straight fact.

You write > Let's see some actual research which I find ironic given that you present your personal opinion about that person as if it were a fact. Maybe we should all start cleaning up in front of our own doors first whenever we feel an urge to not criticize (which would be okay) to bad-mouth other people. In addition, you also do exactly what the comment you replied to ask you not to, seemingly without having given…

> Even if it were shown to be wrong, so what?

Indeed. Who cares whether anything is true or not when discussing policy on websites with billions of users? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Re: Facebook to Exempt Opinion and Satire from Fact-Checking

#27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You write > Let's see some actual research which I find ironic given that you present your personal opinion about that person as if it were a fact. Maybe we should all start cleaning up in front of our own doors first whenever we feel an urge to not criticize (which would be okay) to bad-mouth other people. In addition, you also do exactly what the comment you replied to ask you not to, seemingly without having given…

> Even if it were shown to be wrong, so what? Indeed. Who cares whether anything is true or not when discussing policy on websites with billions of users? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Why do you ignore what I actually wrote? Wouldn't discussions be much better if you actually responded to what other people actually say? Given that you want truth, it's quite ironic that you yourself don't seem to be quite flexible.

Re: Facebook to Exempt Opinion and Satire from Fact-Checking

#28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Even if it were shown to be wrong, so what? Indeed. Who cares whether anything is true or not when discussing policy on websites with billions of users? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Why do you ignore what I actually wrote? Wouldn't discussions be much better if you actually responded to what other people actually say? Given that you want truth, it's quite ironic that you yourself don't seem to be quite flexible.

"If X, then Y"

"X seems pretty bogus."

"Who cares if X is true? Anyway, Y Y Y"

Re: Facebook to Exempt Opinion and Satire from Fact-Checking

#29
Interesting times, and a slippery slope. These fairly square rules will surely cause other uproars as it invites back the alt-right with their tongue-in-cheek fascism. And the Facebook algorithms seem embarrassingly incapable of nuance, like this Tommy Robinson debacle: the mere mention of the name "Tommy Robinson" in a post (in Sweden) renders your profile inactive for several days or indefinitely. In other countries the post is simply deleted. In other words, any other person called Tommy Robinson would not be able to have a FB presence.

I'm no fan of Tommy Robinson but this is worrying as FB has become more of a utility for online discussion and publishing. The problem is partly technical, but ultimately it is caused by the fact that Facebook doesn't have a value system of it's own. They need to follow the bidding of the powers that squeeze them the most.

Re: Facebook to Exempt Opinion and Satire from Fact-Checking

#30
post #3

Most of the misinformation and propaganda out there is presented as "opinion" on all networks. The very little actual news on Fox, for example, is always accurate (and actually pretty good), so not being able to call them out on that takes away from the entire effort.

Most reporting is based on opinions, or is at least misleading in the sense that it tends to be reported from well defined perspective. The editorial decisions about what to report, what to not report, what to report as important or credible, and what to report as irrelevant or non-credible, can all be used to mislead the audience and misrepresent events. I can’t think of one mainstream news outlet that doesn’t do th…

So how do you feel about Ofcom's rules in the UK that regulate fairness and bias in broadcast channels? They seem to work fairly well.
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