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A large number of Stack Exchange mods resigning over new policies

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Re: A large number of Stack Exchange mods resigning over new policies

#271

Post by lonelappde »

Jun8 wrote: post #56

My understanding is that the train of events that resulted in mod Monica Cellio’s demodding from SE started with a gender-related complaint tweet ( https://medium.com/@cellio/dear-stack-overflow-we-need-to-ta... ). Companies are now very sensitive to this pattern, esp. true for SE due to the ongoing changes there.

That Twitter kerfuffle was in 2018. Has there been ongoing train of events since then?

Monica mentions "this rule mandates specific, positive actions." but not what the rule is, which I find disquieting. What is the rule, and if it's so bad, and also public (it's a new rule everyone has to know, right?), why is being kept secret?

Re: A large number of Stack Exchange mods resigning over new policies

#272

Post by mech422 »

comtn wrote: post #185
ratsmack wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because I only know Python.

That is a poor example. Rust and Python are vastly dissimilar, and one could easily be recommended over the other for various reasons. Python for portability, Rust for system oriented programming. To say you don't use rust because you don't know it is an excuse, and a terrible one at that. i would say the learning curve of Python is similar to Rust, why not learn?

You forgot the sarcasm tags... +1 cuz I think I've seen the exact answer on SE.

Re: A large number of Stack Exchange mods resigning over new policies

#273

Post by lonelappde »

chipotle_coyote wrote: post #269
9HZZRfNlpR wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole pronoun drama that is inherently American is tearing down international communities left and right despite it not being even an issue.

If it really wasn't even an issue, this wouldn't be coming up as often as it does, though, would it? To me, "if someone tells you they prefer singular 'they', use that" is non-controversial, just like "if someone tells you they go by 'Goldie,' use that" should be. Insisting "No, I am going to call you by the pronouns I believe are 'correct' for you" is akin to "No, your legal name is 'Marigold,' and I am going to cal…

It's StackEexchange. Pronouns don't matter. I've never seen a reason for this person pronouns to be used. No one's generalist are topic of conversation, and it's not a a gossip forum, so there is no reason to use third person pronouns to refer to users at all!

If this is true, it's damning:

> Now if I avoid pronouns altogether by sticking to proper names or disengaging from the individual, that's being considered an insult too.

The complaints seem to be about some proposed new rule requiring users to explicitly write other users' pronouns, for no other reason than as a performative display of respect. This is quite different from a rule that says "If a user states that they prefer pronoun X, don't use other pronouns."

Re: A large number of Stack Exchange mods resigning over new policies

#274

Post by detaro »

tester347 wrote: post #66
MrStonedOne wrote: post #29

This is natural selection at work. Stack Exchange has become a frustrating site to use. "Closed as duplicate: different and unrelated question" reopen further explaining the question and how its not related "Closed as duplicate: the first question that was immediately closed with no replies" OR! Google around, find SE link on issue, everybody is arguing about why the user wants to do it that why, convinces them to do…

How is that possible that I created like 100 questions on SO/SE over years and 90+% of them weren't closed/marked? Im that lucky or people tend to do not care about quality of their questions and then cry about how SO is bad?

Did your questions fit in a pattern of questions that SE fails at, or did they have straight-forward answers?

Re: A large number of Stack Exchange mods resigning over new policies

#275

Post by lonelappde »

baud147258 wrote: post #196
mieseratte wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First manager I've had, great guy and despite his shortcomings I'd work with him again. Straightforward honest guy, did he work well, mentored me well. Then one day he assaulted another coworker in the break room. Someone's on-the-job performance doesn't mean they are always and forever in the right. Given the lack of any concrete evidence posted but lots of hand-wringing and pearl clutching about vague incidences, I…

A "Director of Public Q&A at Stack Overflow" answered with: "We aren’t going to share specifics out of respect for all individuals involved but this is a site reaching millions of people and we have to do what we believe fosters a spirit of inclusion and respect. When a moderator violates that, we will always do our best to resolve it with them privately. When we can’t we must take action." ( https://judaism.meta.sta…

I understand SE respecting privacy by not publishing details about the firing. I don't understand Monica raising a complaint about being fired, giving a lot of background info, saying he knows why he was fired, but writing in tangles to avoid stating what he believes triggered the firing. If it's something about pronouns, or whatever it is, he should say so. Otherwise it's just "I was fired for something that they think is justified but I won't, but I won't say what, and I ask your support."

Re: A large number of Stack Exchange mods resigning over new policies

#276

Post by lonelappde »

dimillian wrote: post #152

So much politics about that. I go on on SO from Google, find solution to my problem. Sometime add my own answers. And sometime I post question when I can't find solution. End of the story. Why the fuck it need to be so complicated?

Because at the end of the day, SO/SE and everything is in the service of human culture, not a Platonic ideal in and of itself. So the culture wars fold back in on it.

Re: A large number of Stack Exchange mods resigning over new policies

#277

Post by ceejayoz »

celticmusic wrote: post #205
charlesism wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, it is often useful to ask why a user wants to do something a particular way, and commendable to inform them if it’s bad practice. The trouble is, if you’re going to reply that way, you should strive to first answer the question, as asked . If the answer is bad practice, of course, you should mention that. That’s the respectful way to handle a misguided question, in my opinion. Give the reader both solutions, ex…

seriously. I've been doing this stuff a long time, there's usually a reason why I'm doing it the way I'm doing it. I understand you don't like it, think it shouldn't be done that way, and so forth. But I promise you, I've already considered the alternatives. And if you mention an alternative I haven't considered, I'll consider it then. But please, for the love of god, just answer the effing question and stop assuming…

> I've been doing this stuff a long time, there's usually a reason why I'm doing it the way I'm doing it.

People who've been doing it long enough probably also have the experience to know how to ask a good question that explains the why of the unusual request.

"I unfortunately stuck on an low-power embedded device that for some weird reason only supports MD5" is going to be treated differently on SO than "I'm new to PHP and I'm using MD5 for to encrypt passwords but I can't reverse the encryption to read the password!"

Re: A large number of Stack Exchange mods resigning over new policies

#278

Post by krallja »

SAI_Peregrinus wrote: post #247
charlesism wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, it is often useful to ask why a user wants to do something a particular way, and commendable to inform them if it’s bad practice. The trouble is, if you’re going to reply that way, you should strive to first answer the question, as asked . If the answer is bad practice, of course, you should mention that. That’s the respectful way to handle a misguided question, in my opinion. Give the reader both solutions, ex…

The one case where I think it makes sense to say "Don't do that" unequivocally is with security issues. Cryptography SE gets a decent number of people asking some variant of "how do I implement " to which the only correct answer is "Don't do that. It's unsafe."

Home Improvement is another good one where “STOP IMMEDIATELY” is a good answer:

https://diy.stackexchange.com/a/174646/35432

Re: A large number of Stack Exchange mods resigning over new policies

#279

Post by dang »

345218435 wrote: post #249
MrStonedOne wrote: post #29

This is natural selection at work. Stack Exchange has become a frustrating site to use. "Closed as duplicate: different and unrelated question" reopen further explaining the question and how its not related "Closed as duplicate: the first question that was immediately closed with no replies" OR! Google around, find SE link on issue, everybody is arguing about why the user wants to do it that why, convinces them to do…

how do you get yelled at by text? milennials, do yourselves a favor and grow some skin. just stop to care to much! it‘s the bloody internet and you and everybody else are free on there. not everybody will appreciate your help. you did your best. get over it. i cannot stand the flodding with people and their constant complaining „ugh, this community is not inclusive!!1!eleven!“. the hell, just leave! cyberspace is big…

Please don't post in the flamewar style to HN.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: A large number of Stack Exchange mods resigning over new policies

#280

Post by bobloblaw45 »

MrStonedOne wrote: post #29

This is natural selection at work. Stack Exchange has become a frustrating site to use. "Closed as duplicate: different and unrelated question" reopen further explaining the question and how its not related "Closed as duplicate: the first question that was immediately closed with no replies" OR! Google around, find SE link on issue, everybody is arguing about why the user wants to do it that why, convinces them to do…

Man as someone trying to learn something new I avoid posting to that site like the plague. Oh yeah I'll search but you couldn't pay me to make a post because I've seen what happens to the people that post the question I was searching for.
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