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Richard Stallman Has Been Vilified by Those Who Don’t Know Him

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Re: Richard Stallman Has Been Vilified by Those Who Don’t Know Him

#11

Post by davidw »

topmonk wrote: post #10
menotyou43 wrote: post #3

Umm.... absolutely not. These quotes (directly from his site) beg to differ: > “I am sceptical of the claim that voluntarily pedophilia harms children. The arguments that it causes harm seem to be based on cases which aren’t voluntary, which are then stretched by parents who are horrified by the idea that their little baby is maturing.” > “There is little evidence to justify the widespread assumption that willing par…

>> Richard Stallman Has Been Vilified by Those Who Don’t Know Him > Umm.... absolutely not. These quotes (directly from his site) beg to differ: Do you know him? Aren't you vilifying him? Having an unpopular opinion isn't grounds for "proper judgement" of being constantly harassed by a mob every time his name is brought up.

It's a pretty good reason for him to step down as a public figure though.

Re: Richard Stallman Has Been Vilified by Those Who Don’t Know Him

#12

Post by Mizza »

mindslight wrote: post #7
Mizza wrote: post #6

[flagged]

Invoking "Trump" needlessly cheapened your comment, which was otherwise relevant (although I'd include "journalists" as the leaders). It's always "business as usual" - regardless of which skinjob has won the job of absorbing outrage.

It's certainly not an endorsement, just an observation. I think a lot of people, myself included, feel like the world just kind of went _crazy_ in 2016, and it hasn't been the same since. Of course, it didn't really change all that much - there aren't secret nazis everywhere, antifa isn't an international communist conspiracy - it's just kooks - all your neighbors are the same people. Still, our social immune system is flaring up at record highs and the symptoms are showing. Things certainly can't continue as they are.

I think that Trump be ousted via impeachment or in the next election, and then there will be an international sigh of relief, and a lot of these outraged mobs will stop gnashing their teeth so much. Everybody will go back to enjoying the amenities provided by the decline of human civilization.

Re: Richard Stallman Has Been Vilified by Those Who Don’t Know Him

#13

Post by happytoexplain »

mindslight wrote: post #7
Mizza wrote: post #6

[flagged]

Invoking "Trump" needlessly cheapened your comment, which was otherwise relevant (although I'd include "journalists" as the leaders). It's always "business as usual" - regardless of which skinjob has won the job of absorbing outrage.

I thought calling it an "obscene cyber lynching" committed by "young white college graduates who live in urban California and work for evil companies" cheapened it quite severely before even getting to the latter half of the comment.

Re: Richard Stallman Has Been Vilified by Those Who Don’t Know Him

#14

Post by wpietri »

favorited wrote: post #5

Here[0] is a post by someone else who (by his own account) "worked for RMS longer than any other programmer." While he obviously has had a long relationship with Stallman, one of his key takeaways was: "RMS’s loss of MIT privileges and leadership of the FSF are the appropriate responses to a pattern of decades of poor behavior. It does not matter if they are appropriate responses to a single email thread, because the…

Totally. I get that the OP is from Stallman's publicist. But I think a good publicist shouldn't at worse be selective about the truth, not say outright false things like this.

Plenty of people who know Stallman have made it clear that Stallman's behavior is consistent, harmful, and willful. E.g.: https://twitter.com/mjg59/status/1172422966904160257

Re: Richard Stallman Has Been Vilified by Those Who Don’t Know Him

#15

Post by menotyou43 »

topmonk wrote: post #10
menotyou43 wrote: post #3

Umm.... absolutely not. These quotes (directly from his site) beg to differ: > “I am sceptical of the claim that voluntarily pedophilia harms children. The arguments that it causes harm seem to be based on cases which aren’t voluntary, which are then stretched by parents who are horrified by the idea that their little baby is maturing.” > “There is little evidence to justify the widespread assumption that willing par…

>> Richard Stallman Has Been Vilified by Those Who Don’t Know Him > Umm.... absolutely not. These quotes (directly from his site) beg to differ: Do you know him? Aren't you vilifying him? Having an unpopular opinion isn't grounds for "proper judgement" of being constantly harassed by a mob every time his name is brought up.

My qualm is with the term "vilified." It implies that he is being done undue harm - he's getting what he should be getting. He should not be in a leadership position.

Re: Richard Stallman Has Been Vilified by Those Who Don’t Know Him

#16

Post by wpietri »

Mizza wrote: post #6

[flagged]

Lynching is a pretty bad analogy. He did not die. He was not physically harmed. A guy around retirement age decided to resign from a couple of jobs.

Stallman got away with a lot for decades because he had much more privilege than the people he harmed. He might still be getting away with it had MIT not gotten caught making themselves absolutely eager to run with a serial predator. But just because somebody gets away with a lot doesn't mean he's entitled to do that forever. Nothing happened here but the consequences of his own actions finally catching up with him.

Re: Richard Stallman Has Been Vilified by Those Who Don’t Know Him

#17

Post by Mizza »

happytoexplain wrote: post #13
mindslight wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Invoking "Trump" needlessly cheapened your comment, which was otherwise relevant (although I'd include "journalists" as the leaders). It's always "business as usual" - regardless of which skinjob has won the job of absorbing outrage.

I thought calling it an "obscene cyber lynching" committed by "young white college graduates who live in urban California and work for evil companies" cheapened it quite severely before even getting to the latter half of the comment.

That's really the main point, though. People complain about "punching down" in comedy, but that's all this ever looks like to me. It's always somebody who works at Google, or Facebook, or Salesforce, or blah blah blah, which is something that I consider to be far, far more egregious than telling off color jokes or defending the reputation of your deceased friend. If you spy on people or send spam to make money, you're a bad person and you've got no grounds at all to tell other people how to think. It smacks of the bourgeoisie telling the peasants to get in line. That's my opinion.

Re: Richard Stallman Has Been Vilified by Those Who Don’t Know Him

#18

Post by Mizza »

wpietri wrote: post #16
Mizza wrote: post #6

[flagged]

Lynching is a pretty bad analogy. He did not die. He was not physically harmed. A guy around retirement age decided to resign from a couple of jobs. Stallman got away with a lot for decades because he had much more privilege than the people he harmed. He might still be getting away with it had MIT not gotten caught making themselves absolutely eager to run with a serial predator. But just because somebody gets away w…

That's fair, I don't know of a less extreme word. I don't mean it in the way that it means in the southern US, but in the more broad sense of "trial-less mob justice action".

Re: Richard Stallman Has Been Vilified by Those Who Don’t Know Him

#19

Post by happytoexplain »

topmonk wrote: post #10
menotyou43 wrote: post #3

Umm.... absolutely not. These quotes (directly from his site) beg to differ: > “I am sceptical of the claim that voluntarily pedophilia harms children. The arguments that it causes harm seem to be based on cases which aren’t voluntary, which are then stretched by parents who are horrified by the idea that their little baby is maturing.” > “There is little evidence to justify the widespread assumption that willing par…

>> Richard Stallman Has Been Vilified by Those Who Don’t Know Him > Umm.... absolutely not. These quotes (directly from his site) beg to differ: Do you know him? Aren't you vilifying him? Having an unpopular opinion isn't grounds for "proper judgement" of being constantly harassed by a mob every time his name is brought up.

I don't think merely believing or giving credence to the people who know him, combined with observation, means that his vilification comes not at the hands of those who know him. It only followed from it. You may look for fault in those primary sources, but why separately attack the rest of the world for their opinions on the matter?

Also, for what it's worth, I think defending something somebody said by calling it an "unpopular opinion" is a really easy trope to fall into that makes your tone seem dismissive to the opposing viewpoint (the "popular" viewpoint).

Re: Richard Stallman Has Been Vilified by Those Who Don’t Know Him

#20

Post by dang »

Mizza wrote: post #6

[flagged]

Please don't post vilifications about vilifications. Even if you're right, it only makes this place strictly worse.

Also, please don't turn this into a regional flamewar. We don't need any of that here either.

Also, no partisan flamebait please.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

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