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New research questions the evidence for health benefits of eating less red meat

nytimes.com

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Re: New research questions the evidence for health benefits of eating less red meat

#141

Post by ssijak »

geggam wrote: post #114
tathougies wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an anecdote, my wife gave up vegetarianism after ten years and suffered no consequences coming back onto meat. She started with a tiny bit of pork and the next day was eating chicken, pork, etc. The fact is humans are omnivores.

My wife tried every diet known, when she started eating Keto style and even strict carnivorous all of her stomach issues went away. Just from observing her and the kids I think there are huge benefits to not eating carbohydrates. Some of this benefit could be related to the chemicals in the foods but every time she eats any grains or grain products she gets stomach issues I dont have any stomach issues except I gain…

Anegdotal evidence are just that, anecdotal. Most of the studies show that all the unprocessed complex and fibrous carbohidrates are very good for health, but eating spoons of sugar is obviously bad. All the longevity experts that I listened to and read what they say also agree that in general protein should be at a very slight nitrogen positive balance (so less then 100g per day for most of people) and rest is carbs and some fats. And yes, not everyone i

Re: New research questions the evidence for health benefits of eating less red meat

#142

Post by theferalrobot »

pkghost wrote: post #123
someonehere wrote: post #115

I’m always skeptical when I see counter studies to businesses that have a strong financial foothold on certain industries. Case in point, did the meat industry have any weight in this study? Generally I feel through certain lobbying efforts theses types of industries will produce a counter study that gets enough backing to be read on the nightly news and now people go back to the way things were or are confused. Havi…

As if there are not other industries that benefit from meat being deemed unhealthy by science? Non-expert perspective on this: I find it very difficult to believe that there is such a thing as too much meat (and easy to believe that too much bad quality meat is the root of the problem as commonly discussed), given that most preagricultural environments lacked sufficient carbohydrate density to support anything other…

> given that most preagricultural environments lacked sufficient carbohydrate density to support anything other than a ketogenic diet

Evolution takes a long time and most of the ancestors in human history were near vegetarian with a very low percentage of calories coming from non-vegetarian sources.

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/human-ancest...

Re: New research questions the evidence for health benefits of eating less red meat

#143

Post by the_watcher »

sparrc wrote: post #92
sleavey wrote: post #12

I guess this study gives credence to the relatively old idea that modern bad health (chronic inflammation, cardiovascular diseases, dental problems, etc.) is driven by the high levels of carbohydrate and linoleic acid (omega 6, found in large quantities in sunflower and other seed oils) in our diets and not the traditionally "bad" foodstuffs like red meat and foods containing high cholesterol and saturated fat. I'm l…

Is this an 'old' idea? In this context isn't the 'old' idea that saturated fat and cholesterol are bad for you? How does this hypothesis deal with the fact that vegans and vegetarians have lower levels of cardiovascular disease, lower blood cholesterol, and lower risk of diabetes (honest question, I'd assume that vegans and vegetarians generally eat much more carbs)?

If being a vegan/vegetarian is highly correlated with "cares about health," the types of carbs they consume would likely be different, they may be more likely to exercise, and they may be more likely to eat in moderation.

Re: New research questions the evidence for health benefits of eating less red meat

#144

Post by jonnycoder »

droithomme wrote: post #112

I avoided all red meat for decades and ended up with extremely poor health with multiple problems. Not too long ago I saw this insane article about some author's daughter who had severe lifelong immune diseases and after years of experimentation, found that eating absolutely nothing but steaks, water, and vodka, cured all her problems. There was also commentary by nutritionists and scientists saying she was wrong and…

Look up "joe rogan mikhaila peterson" on youtube for those who want to learn more about it. Joe Rogan also interviews Rhonda Patrick and she goes into far more detail about the good and bad of red meat than what you will find reading the comments here.

Re: New research questions the evidence for health benefits of eating less red meat

#145

Post by TJSomething »

Fr0styMatt88 wrote: post #127
sleavey wrote: post #12

I guess this study gives credence to the relatively old idea that modern bad health (chronic inflammation, cardiovascular diseases, dental problems, etc.) is driven by the high levels of carbohydrate and linoleic acid (omega 6, found in large quantities in sunflower and other seed oils) in our diets and not the traditionally "bad" foodstuffs like red meat and foods containing high cholesterol and saturated fat. I'm l…

As someone trying to lose weight, all the conflicting advice out there is so frustrating. Should I eat ‘n’ times a day or just once? Is fasting good, or will it put me in ‘starvation mode’? Why is it that when I was young I didn’t even need to think about my food intake and stayed really, really lean? Do we have a set-point and if so, has mine gone up and am I going to be forever hungry if I want to get back to a sen…

I suspect that a lot of those answers depend on your genes and gut microbiota. Except that last one, because reliably measuring calories requires destroying the food.

Re: New research questions the evidence for health benefits of eating less red meat

#146

Post by bitexploder »

someonehere wrote: post #115

I’m always skeptical when I see counter studies to businesses that have a strong financial foothold on certain industries. Case in point, did the meat industry have any weight in this study? Generally I feel through certain lobbying efforts theses types of industries will produce a counter study that gets enough backing to be read on the nightly news and now people go back to the way things were or are confused. Havi…

I am stepping in it a bit here, but I feel you should not be basing your diet on the China Study. It is pretty thoroughly discredit IMO. https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/385/

Eat lots of vegetables and emulate blue zone diets and life style. It’s the best we got for a blue print of healthy living.

Re: New research questions the evidence for health benefits of eating less red meat

#147

Post by dczot »

someonehere wrote: post #115

I’m always skeptical when I see counter studies to businesses that have a strong financial foothold on certain industries. Case in point, did the meat industry have any weight in this study? Generally I feel through certain lobbying efforts theses types of industries will produce a counter study that gets enough backing to be read on the nightly news and now people go back to the way things were or are confused. Havi…

> Dr. Allison has received research funding from the National Cattlemen’s Beef Association, a lobbying group for meat producers.

Yep.

Re: New research questions the evidence for health benefits of eating less red meat

#148

Post by scottlocklin »

cageface wrote: post #136
dang wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That person isn't an author of the study, presumably just someone the NYT asked to comment. The article says about this study: "The investigators reported no conflicts of interest and did the studies without outside funding." I think it's fair to say that "This is just meat industry damage control" breaks the HN guideline: " Please don't post shallow dismissals, especially of other people's work. A good critical comm…

Fair enough. I thought it was worth mentioning since the meat industry is engaged in an active disinformation campaign. As others have said, the Harvard rebuttal itself gets into the details. I'll link it again here: https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/2019/09/30/flaw...

> the meat industry is engaged in an active disinformation campaign

Come on man: citations needed. From where I am sitting, the "meat industry" is about as threatened by vegetarians as the brussel sprouts industry is by mcdonalds. Keto diets are presently quite popular and don't seem to do people much harm at least.

Re: New research questions the evidence for health benefits of eating less red meat

#149

Post by amanaplanacanal »

tomp wrote: post #134
koboll wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first three grey Q&A boxes on the Harvard response are a pretty devastating rebuttal to the paper. To summarize: - 3 of the 5 meta-analyses reviewed support the consensus on red meat's health dangers - The other 2 are irrelevant and shouldn't have been considered at all - The paper handwaves away the conclusions of the 3 by raising reliability issues that could be applied to any meta-analysis of nutrition, since…

Don't all 3 of those conflate red and processed meat? Not very sciency...

That's one of my personal pet peeves.

Re: New research questions the evidence for health benefits of eating less red meat

#150

Post by amanaplanacanal »

ses1984 wrote: post #131
p10_user wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know you have to eat less. Counting your calories with a food journal is a very successful way to keep yourself accountable for how much you’re eating. Any special diet or strategy is making it more complicated than it is.

Some of us find it incredibly hard, almost impossible, to just eat less. Also some would argue that keeping a food journal and measuring every calorie you eat is far more complicated than special diets like "don't eat carbs" which are successful for some people without measuring or recording anything.

Not sure why you are getting downvoted. Counting calories is fairly simple if you are eating fast food or out of packages. I found it to be a huge pain in the ass when eating whole foods.
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