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Shortchanging Your Business with User-Hostile Platforms

al3x.net

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Re: Shortchanging Your Business with User-Hostile Platforms

#91

Post by chc »

tptacek wrote: post #51
X-Istence wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Java apps done right on Mac OS X look, feel and behave like actual Mac OS X applications, Cyberduck is a free FTP client written in Java for Mac OS X. It is a great example of what is possible in Java. But there are plenty of apps out there that are mere ports (Qt, or Java) and you can feel it. The drag handles are in the wrong location, the app doesn't behave right when you resize it, the buttons are in the wrong pl…

First, I disagree that well-done Java apps on OS X actually hold up as OS X applications. It is as Alex says; there's an uncanny valley, and Java apps fall right into it. Cyberduck is as good as it gets, and, compare it to Panic's Transmit. Second, if you've seen Bingo Card Creator, you know that his users weren't buying it for its elegant OS X-ish interface.

Yes, that's a great example. If you sat me down in front of the two, I could not easily tell you which was the Objective-C application and which was Java. I used Cyberduck on an almost daily basis for years without ever realizing it was Java. That is the app that convinced me Java has a place on Mac OS X.

Re: Shortchanging Your Business with User-Hostile Platforms

#92

Post by chc »

arpit wrote: post #76

I really need to write a post on "Shortchanging your blog readers by spewing opinion but disabling comments". Whats with this? DaringFireball is the worst of the lot. Is this some new trend?

The only people being cut out are those who are too lazy to post on their own blog or start a discussion thread on their favorite forum/link aggregator. I think blocking people who don't care enough to do that from commenting might be a net win.

Re: Shortchanging Your Business with User-Hostile Platforms

#93

Post by powdahound »

jarek wrote: post #52
al3x wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope.

Do you think an AIR application will result in less users overall than a Windows only application? edit: make that less "paying users", by whichever standard the application in question uses

Keep in mind that although 60% of our AIR client users are on Windows, 0% of the teams use Windows exclusively. Targeting a single OS would be a fatal decision for us.

Re: Shortchanging Your Business with User-Hostile Platforms

#94

Post by powdahound »

swombat wrote: post #70
dools wrote: post #64

" It seemed like a decision that had everything to do with what’s in the best interests of the business, and nothing to do with what’s good for the customer. " They already told you they're a small team, with mostly windows users and AIR allowed them to offer a cross platform solution. This is a polite way of saying "you're an outlier, you're not our target user, please go away and stop bothering us". " People seem t…

They already told you they're a small team, with mostly windows users and AIR allowed them to offer a cross platform solution. This is a polite way of saying "you're an outlier, you're not our target user, please go away and stop bothering us". Alex's point is that they should have built a native windows app in that case. Even on Windows, AIR apps kinda suck. It all comes down to the oft-rehashed point from 37signals…

You should try our app. AIR is kind of crappy by default but we've put a lot of work into making it feel native. Lots of people love it:

http://twitter.com/#!/mtamizi/status/24547982921703424 http://twitter.com/#!/ochekurishvili/status/22690462684 http://twitter.com/#!/pradeep24/status/24582785423384576

Re: Shortchanging Your Business with User-Hostile Platforms

#95

Post by arpit »

al3x wrote: post #89
arpit wrote: post #76

I really need to write a post on "Shortchanging your blog readers by spewing opinion but disabling comments". Whats with this? DaringFireball is the worst of the lot. Is this some new trend?

It's not a new trend. I haven't allowed comments on my blog for years. I want people to post thoughtful responses on their own turf. If someones care enough, they can respond on their own blog.

But how does one find those follow up posts? I don't see any pingbacks on your blog either.

Its an interesting problem though, I actually find a lot of value in comments, especially when the topics aren't too sensational and the people aren't entrenched in their camps. I actually come to HackerNews and Reddit specifically for comments but not every story gets there.

Re: Shortchanging Your Business with User-Hostile Platforms

#96

Post by lmz »

chc wrote: post #91
tptacek wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First, I disagree that well-done Java apps on OS X actually hold up as OS X applications. It is as Alex says; there's an uncanny valley, and Java apps fall right into it. Cyberduck is as good as it gets, and, compare it to Panic's Transmit. Second, if you've seen Bingo Card Creator, you know that his users weren't buying it for its elegant OS X-ish interface.

Yes, that's a great example. If you sat me down in front of the two, I could not easily tell you which was the Objective-C application and which was Java. I used Cyberduck on an almost daily basis for years without ever realizing it was Java. That is the app that convinced me Java has a place on Mac OS X.

That's because Cyberduck calls the native Cocoa Objective-C APIs[1]. This is doable, but it's a lot of work and won't run on anything other than OS X. Something cross platform that uses Swing won't feel as nice. Also, it uses a third party binding to the Cocoa libraries. Apple deprecated theirs quite some time ago.

[1]: http://trac.cyberduck.ch/browser/trunk/source/ch/cyberduck/u...

Re: Shortchanging Your Business with User-Hostile Platforms

#97

Post by dools »

al3x wrote: post #88
dools wrote: post #64

" It seemed like a decision that had everything to do with what’s in the best interests of the business, and nothing to do with what’s good for the customer. " They already told you they're a small team, with mostly windows users and AIR allowed them to offer a cross platform solution. This is a polite way of saying "you're an outlier, you're not our target user, please go away and stop bothering us". " People seem t…

I genuinely enjoyed this comment. Really. It's probably the most passionate response I've received. I was going to argue with you point-by-point, particularly about your false claim that I didn't include any examples (which another commenter addressed, and you acknowledged). At the end of it all, after a lot of flailing, I think this is really your thesis: "Software is a constant process of settling for mediocrity."…

If anyone's still interested my blog-in-reply is here: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2111686

Re: Shortchanging Your Business with User-Hostile Platforms

#98

Post by bubing »

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Re: Shortchanging Your Business with User-Hostile Platforms

#99

Post by Maro »

al3x wrote: post #88
dools wrote: post #64

" It seemed like a decision that had everything to do with what’s in the best interests of the business, and nothing to do with what’s good for the customer. " They already told you they're a small team, with mostly windows users and AIR allowed them to offer a cross platform solution. This is a polite way of saying "you're an outlier, you're not our target user, please go away and stop bothering us". " People seem t…

I genuinely enjoyed this comment. Really. It's probably the most passionate response I've received. I was going to argue with you point-by-point, particularly about your false claim that I didn't include any examples (which another commenter addressed, and you acknowledged). At the end of it all, after a lot of flailing, I think this is really your thesis: "Software is a constant process of settling for mediocrity."…

Yeah, settling for mediocrity didn't work out for those Twitter guys either =)
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