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In Defense of Richard Stallman

geoff.greer.fm

321–330 of 681 posts

Re: In Defense of Richard Stallman

#321
post #41

> He held his positions at MIT, GNU, and the FSF for over thirty years, and in that time nobody accused him of coercion, unwanted touching, or verbal harassment. The author missed the point of the Me Too movement. Lot of other powerful people were not publicly accused for decades because they were powerful and could easily silence their accusers.

Do you think Richard Stallman was "powerful" enough to "easily silence" accusers?

It's not about what we think, but what people in the receiving end of his advances thought at the time that was happening. Stallman IS a powerful figure in the Free Software movement. The mere fact the people are making blog posts or coming to HN in his defense after what he said, both in the MIT e-mail and in his blog over the years, is evidence enough of that. While it is hard to think that Stallman would go after those who accused him of anything, the guy has a huge enough following that people would be intimidated to make accusations due to the possibility of push back from the community.

Re: In Defense of Richard Stallman

#322
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If we can't, as a group, tolerate awkwardness, we are very much down the rabbit hole of mandatory social conformity. Which seem to go against all goals of diversity and inclusiveness. If we strive for more diverse community we have accept quirks of some people. Only in purely homogeneous group everybody can be comfortable and not offended.

Society: "We must embrace neuro-diversiry" Midly Autistic, not-good-looking man: Shows signs of autism Society: "No! Not like that! Kill it! Kill it!"

Half of the academic computer science community is autistic and not attractive, and the vast majority of them somehow manages to refrain from making female colleagues and students constantly uncomfortabe, provoking outrage by doubting the well-supported testimony of a child sex abuse victim, and so forth.

Re: In Defense of Richard Stallman

#323

@dang Can we please stop removing Stallman discussions from the front page? I understand we want to keep things civil on HN, but the reality is that this dramatically impacts this community and all developers - probably more than we realize on the surface. I Discussing it and essentially letting everyone voice their thoughts is a way to both (a) come to consensus and (b) potentially see view points. As it stands the…

I would imagine that it's been automatically removed due to a large number of people flagging it, rather than manually removed by the admins.

My understanding is that automatic removals (from flagging) get reviewed and unremoved if the admins don't see a good case for the submission being flag-worthy.

Re: In Defense of Richard Stallman

#325
post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wasn't referring to those posts, but these for example: “I am sceptical of the claim that voluntarily pedophilia harms children. The arguments that it causes harm seem to be based on cases which aren’t voluntary, which are then stretched by parents who are horrified by the idea that their little baby is maturing.” “There is little evidence to justify the widespread assumption that willing participation in pedophili…

He's entitled to have an opinion. He's not promoting pedophilia, merely stating that he's skeptical to the current opinions about pedophilia. It could be that in 300 years from now, pedophilia or rather hebephilia (what most people mean) is perfectly accepted by society. I honestly hope it won't, and I don't agree with RMS on these points, but he's allowed to be skeptical.

Oh absolutely he's allowed to be skeptical. He's allowed to say whatever he wants, and he certainly has used that freedom.

Re: In Defense of Richard Stallman

#326
post #76

Diversity -- but no diversity of opinion... Inclusiveness -- but let's ostracize the non-conforming aspie... Fairness -- but let's fire people or make them resign from unrelated positions for their personal opinions, because obviously all of a person's life should serve as a big PR, and god forbid they don't play the role 24/7. Someone might call them for it on Twitter, and what could their employee/organization do o…

I for one agree 100% with you here. And I don't really know what angers me more - the explicit desire to destroy a person's life, expressed by many including the original blogger that started this mess, or the relentless denial of reality, the willingness to repeat bald-faced lies, even though the source material was accessible and widely quoted. Until this debacle I didn't realize so many people in our industry can…

> Until this debacle I didn't realize so many people in our industry can voluntarily refrain from most basic reading comprehension. There's no discussion with people who simply refuse to read and comprehend a plain English sentence.

I can't remember exactly when "Flame Warriors" came out ( https://www.politicsforum.org/flame-warriors/ ) - possibly back in 1999 ... but it was clear trouble was ahead...

Re: In Defense of Richard Stallman

#327
post #230
post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correct me if i'm wrong but it sounds like you're trying to say 'People who have a leadership role in an educational or advocacy setting are not entitled to have a certain opinion or preference that does not fall within the lines our "society" has drawn out to be normal?' AFAIK there are plenty of high positioned people in important positions whom have a special preference to something. Whether it be a kink or a tota…

I mean the guy can think whatever the fuck he wants. He can even tell his friends. He can use nipple clamps and be consentingly spanked with kitchen implements. Nobody gives a shit about any of that stuff. But if you publicly say stuff like this: "I think it is morally absurd to define 'rape' in a way that depends on minor details such as which country it was in or whether the victim was 18 years old or 17." "I think…

There are many countries in the world where the age of consent is 14. It was so in Canada, our physical and cultural neighbor, until 2008. Why is it so wildly unacceptable opinion to question an arbitrary line of US law?

Re: In Defense of Richard Stallman

#328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

before someone goes into a defensive rage... rms being a creep and particularly women at MIT going to great lengths to avoid him is well documented these remarks, while slightly distorted by the media, are still part of a pattern of dismissing sexual assault (including the way RMS insists on not using the word assault despite it being well understood that assault does not have to be physical violence) rms is the sort…

> before someone goes into a defensive rage... rms being a creep and particularly women at MIT going to great lengths to avoid him is well documented I can't believe this hasn't been asked yet - if the allegations are founded, why didn't MIT do anything as his employer? They have a statutory obligation to provide a safe workplace.

I hate to be the one to draw the feminism card on HN because I know I'll attract a swarm of people that'll 'disagree' with me by shouting things at me, but that is called rape culture, and despite the confusing name, it is not solely about rape.

If that sounds hard to believe I can empathise, it took a personal anecdote for me to get and notice the spread of it too.

If you're wondering how one would be disincentivized, have a lot at how people react:

https://medium.com/p/a7e41e784f88/responses/show

Re: In Defense of Richard Stallman

#329
post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He’s autistic. He probably gives almost everyone he comes into contact with the creeps. Neurotypical people don’t like autistic people, and would prefer to avoid them to the greatest extent possible. I doubt Stallman was any more unpleasant to women than to men, or showed any greater or lesser social graces. He has never, ever held back about any of his opinions or actions. I’m sure you could get him to admit to thin…

>He’s autistic. He probably gives almost everyone he comes into contact with the creeps. Neurotypical people don’t like autistic people, and would prefer to avoid them to the greatest extent possible. This is an incredibly ignorant opinion. Lots of high functioning autistic people develop reasonable social skills. People still probably notice if they hang around with us long enough, but non-shitty people (aka apparen…

My social skills are just fine thanks. I’m still not under the illusion allistic people like autistic people, or accept them except under the condition that they hide who and what they are.

I don’t think autistic people are creepy perverts. I think that normal people pretty much automatically think they’re creepy because there’s something off about the way they interact socially. The degree of offness varies but if you never had it you were never autistic.

If you’re under the impression people are accepting go to an autism or asperger’s support group. You will be quickly disabused of your high opinion of humanity.

https://thingofthings.wordpress.com/2019/04/24/on-stimming-a...

> Being able to pass as nonautistic is an important skill. We live in a world full of people who hate autistic people. Other people find the natural way our bodies move to be upsetting or repulsive to look at. It is not realistic to expect nonautistic people to change, so those of us who can acquire the skill of passing will often be better able to achieve our goals if we can pass.

Re: In Defense of Richard Stallman

#330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please provide a link. I’ve seen this repeated, but no source. I don’t necessarily doubt it, but if you don’t provide a link your basically committing slander.

“I am sceptical of the claim that voluntarily pedophilia harms children. The arguments that it causes harm seem to be based on cases which aren’t voluntary, which are then stretched by parents who are horrified by the idea that their little baby is maturing.” “There is little evidence to justify the widespread assumption that willing participation in pedophilia hurts children.“ I can give you the links but it's quite…

It's well-known he's since recanted his thoughts in those posts:

https://stallman.org/archives/2019-jul-oct.html#14_September...

Are people allowed to change their mind after having conversations that convince them that their position is wrong?

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