Starship Prototype Unveiled • Hacker News Board

Re: Starship Prototype Unveiled

#271

Post by marktangotango » Mon, Sep 30, 2019, 7:42 AM UTC

test6554 wrote: post #238

martythemaniak wrote: post #21

That was a very dense an informative presentation last night, but I think the main take away is that rapid reusability is a game changer. In fact, game-changer is probably an understatement, basically every intuition and rule-of-thumb we have about space launches and travel will have to be rethought. And this will be true even of SpaceX falls well short of meeting their stated targets (2020 orbit, 150t capability, mu…

I always figured I would need to shell out $250K for the privilege, but I’d probably be better off investing that in asteroid mining companies.

Yes! Is anyone actively working on this? Also orbital hotels are the other obvious draw, and Bigelow has a start on that at least.

Re: Starship Prototype Unveiled

#272

Post by greglindahl » Mon, Sep 30, 2019, 7:45 AM UTC

justapassenger wrote: post #146

cryptoz wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding something. I thought Hopper was not about Raptor tests but about VTOL as well. The FH had to wait while F9 got down the vertical landing science and engineering (though a lot of tests, explosions, delays). StarHopper seems like it can use those learnings, and that was tested recently. The engine was already functioning on a test stand and mated to Hopper for static fires; the Hopper hop i…

> The general space industry considered reusabable spacecraft that land vertically to be pretty much impossible until F9 and FH did it. But Hopper just does that casually, you don't bat an eye, you don't even comment that Hopper was testing a new rocket dynamics/physics for the math that (almost) only SpaceX has figured out. VTVL isn't new. To do it you need ability to throttle engine and do trust vectoring - once yo…

So that quote by the CNES director of launchers praising SpaceX for pioneering supersonic retropropulsion... he's confused and SpaceX didn't do anything new?

Re: Starship Prototype Unveiled

#273

Post by twic » Mon, Sep 30, 2019, 7:50 AM UTC

ryanmarsh wrote: post #166

How do they plan to get 100 tons of cargo from atop the starship down to the surface of Mars? Do you use a crane? I mean, cranes are heavy, right?

Elon's space ideas scrapbook will have a few of these pictures in:

http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/embarking.php

Re: Starship Prototype Unveiled

#274

Post by baybal2 » Mon, Sep 30, 2019, 8:06 AM UTC

greglindahl wrote: post #150

baybal2 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine the autoclave the size of a rocket. Composite tanks on few rockets being flown with them are made in one of a kind, purpose built autoclaves

Out-of-autoclave methods are mature and common these days.

Do they get you the same strength, fill ratio, and allow for usage with aerospace specialty epoxies?

Re: Starship Prototype Unveiled

#275

Post by socialdemocrat » Mon, Sep 30, 2019, 8:11 AM UTC

twic wrote: post #265

iblaine wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Musk thinks like a software engineer. Create simple, reusable, components that can scale efficiently. I’m taking some liberties in saying this, but the gist remains the same. Musk keeps it simple and focused.

Musk does not design the rockets.

Musk was chief designer for Falcon 1, their first rocket. Musk is very much involved in detailed technical decisions.

Musk is very much responsible for why the team works the way it does. He specifically focused on hiring people who experiment and try out things a lot. He did not want just pure theoretical guys.

Re: Starship Prototype Unveiled

#276

Post by dwd » Mon, Sep 30, 2019, 8:14 AM UTC

iblaine wrote: post #169

hoorayimhelping wrote: post #20

380s for ISP for the Raptor vacuum engine seems durn good, considering the tradeoffs between hydrogen and methane. The most efficient engines we've flown, the RL-10 [0] (used on the Delta IV and Atlas rockets as part of the Centaur Upper Stage) and the RS-25 [1], (the Space Shuttle Main Engine) get around 450-460s for their specific impulse. These engines use liquid hydrogen and liquid oxygen. The issue with liquid h…

Musk thinks like a software engineer. Create simple, reusable, components that can scale efficiently. I’m taking some liberties in saying this, but the gist remains the same. Musk keeps it simple and focused.

He actually thinks like a systems engineer and a highly skilled and mature one at that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOpMrVnjYeY&feature=youtu.be...

Re: Starship Prototype Unveiled

#277

Post by mpweiher » Mon, Sep 30, 2019, 8:15 AM UTC

For me the biggest "wow" (and there were a lot of those) was the capacity comparison:

Currently the entire world has a launch capacity of 200-300 tons into LEO per year.

With just ten starship/booster combos, that will change to a max capacity of over a million tons into LEO per year.

A factor of over a thousand. The entire current capacity (including the Falcons) at less than 0.1% of the new capacity, a mere footnote. Not even a footnote, really. And apparently they're cheap(er) to build as well. Complete game changer. And game over for everybody else in the launch business.

Wow

Re: Starship Prototype Unveiled

#278

Post by mobilefriendly » Mon, Sep 30, 2019, 8:22 AM UTC

walrus01 wrote: post #140

avar wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is basically how SpaceX seems to operate: rather than optimizing a single part of the system (like trying to get the most efficient engine), they try to optimize from a systems level. They're optimizing for "real" reusability, as in eventually aiming for airline-like turnarounds. None of the earlier engines you noted were reusable except the RS-25, and given how long it took to turn the Shuttle around one coul…

> and given how long it took to turn the Shuttle around one could argue it doesn't really count as "reusable" in sense SpaceX is aiming for. Not just the time but the cost, if you take the figure of how much the space shuttle program cost, and divide it by total number of flights (including the two lethal ones), it cost somewhere between $900 million to $1.1bn every time the thing launched. It was very far from the e…

Indeed, the space shuttle was so expensive it burned up much of the rest of NASAs budget-- keeping that disastrous, failed program running is why NASA doesn't have manned spaceflight capability at the moment.

Re: Starship Prototype Unveiled

#279

Post by londons_explore » Mon, Sep 30, 2019, 8:23 AM UTC

bobsil1 wrote: post #220

starpilot wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Model X doors are terrible. It's an SUV that you can't put a roof rack on. Does seem like a case of geek myopia over usability.

Or… optimized for a different case (ease of access for small kids).

Optimized for showy and unique features, when a young Tesla really needed its products to stand out.

Re: Starship Prototype Unveiled

#280

Post by bbojan » Mon, Sep 30, 2019, 8:24 AM UTC

twic wrote: post #265

iblaine wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Musk thinks like a software engineer. Create simple, reusable, components that can scale efficiently. I’m taking some liberties in saying this, but the gist remains the same. Musk keeps it simple and focused.

Musk does not design the rockets.

His title is literally CEO and Chief Designer.