Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Employers Used Facebook to Keep Women and Older Workers from Seeing Job Ads

propublica.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

281–290 of 487 posts

Re: Employers Used Facebook to Keep Women and Older Workers from Seeing Job Ads

#281

Post by quietbritishjim »

MrBuddyCasino wrote: post #274
peteretep wrote: post #251

> Not just Facebook, but any targeted advertising platform that can target based on demographic could do this. I'd like to point out that specifically you can NOT do this on Facebook any more, or at least not if Facebook find it out. They make you mark your ads as being job posts, and remove demographic targeting from that. The headline here is irritating, because the headline being shown is two years old. The headli…

Seems pointless to me. What are they gonna do, hire those folks they meant to exclude anyway when they show up?

It depends. If the goal was to exclude women or old people no matter how qualified they are then you're right, they could just be excluded at a later stage. But if goal was to save money or reach more relevant people based on the assumption that there are fewer old people and women with necessary qualifications then they actually might hire them once they've applied.

Now I think about it, even in the first case it could make a difference. Rejecting an application from a real individual based on prejudice might be harder to do, due to a stronger feeling of wrongness, than just unchecking a box labelled "female".

Re: Employers Used Facebook to Keep Women and Older Workers from Seeing Job Ads

#282

Post by peteretep »

MrBuddyCasino wrote: post #274
peteretep wrote: post #251

> Not just Facebook, but any targeted advertising platform that can target based on demographic could do this. I'd like to point out that specifically you can NOT do this on Facebook any more, or at least not if Facebook find it out. They make you mark your ads as being job posts, and remove demographic targeting from that. The headline here is irritating, because the headline being shown is two years old. The headli…

Seems pointless to me. What are they gonna do, hire those folks they meant to exclude anyway when they show up?

I think the idea here is to reduce ad spend rather than to discriminate, but it has the side effect of the latter.

You can be perfectly willing to hire a 55 year old female construction worker, but you’ll probably save money by only advertising construction jobs to men aged 20-50.

Re: Employers Used Facebook to Keep Women and Older Workers from Seeing Job Ads

#283

Post by arkh »

kitsune_ wrote: post #258
soulofmischief wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm glad you care about these things, but to say those are the only two reasons why we have trouble correctly matching people to fulfilling jobs is asinine.

This very post is about targeted advertising to keep women and older people from seeing job ads. You then went off a tangent about employer-prospect matching in general. What other reasons are there that lead women and older people to be excluded? I'd probably add salary as a factor with older people.

Older people and women: usually prefer a good work life balance. So they're harder to exploit.

Re: Employers Used Facebook to Keep Women and Older Workers from Seeing Job Ads

#284

Post by arkh »

macintux wrote: post #221
gleenn wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're assuming white males don't know how to suggest females and non-whites. We may be statistically more likely to hang out with other white males but I'm pretty sure I can suggest people besides them.

I can and did, but that doesn’t alter the fact that the preponderance of our collective networks were white males. That’s not a strategy for significant diversification.

If the only diversity you acknowledge is just skin deep you may have a lot more problems.

Re: Employers Used Facebook to Keep Women and Older Workers from Seeing Job Ads

#285

Post by collyw »

BubRoss wrote: post #246
kevcampb wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'jobs for the boys' is a well known phrase for a reason. It's rarely used in a positive way

I have literally never heard anyone say that in my life.

Its a common phrase in the UK.

Re: Employers Used Facebook to Keep Women and Older Workers from Seeing Job Ads

#286

Post by JumpCrisscross »

peteretep wrote: post #251

> Not just Facebook, but any targeted advertising platform that can target based on demographic could do this. I'd like to point out that specifically you can NOT do this on Facebook any more, or at least not if Facebook find it out. They make you mark your ads as being job posts, and remove demographic targeting from that. The headline here is irritating, because the headline being shown is two years old. The headli…

> The headline here is irritating

A newly-public EEOC ruling resulting from investigative journalism around explicitly discriminatory hiring practices facilitated (and profited from) by one of the more morally-bankrupt technology companies of our time is announced, and your gripe is the journalists aren’t giving Facebook enough credit?

A lot of discrimination happened while Facebook hadn’t fixed the problem. Discrimination which Facebook profited from. Facebook decided to enter the job, credit and real estate ad markets, but didn’t care enough to think through the details.

Recent history has been Facebook et al being brazenly lawless, making money from it, and then getting away with a slap on the wrist. The government starting to show teeth is news, and stating their confirmed finding is a fair headline.

Re: Employers Used Facebook to Keep Women and Older Workers from Seeing Job Ads

#287

Post by AdrianB1 »

robk wrote: post #257

Why would employers not target women?

At the steel mill where several of my cousins worked there was never, ever a female applicant for positions on the factory floor, in 50 years. Why pay for adds that nobody will care for?

Same for kindergartens in my country, there is no male care taker (not sure what is the right name, it is not a teaching position) in the entire country. Why advertise it to men?

If you want to hire junior developers, for example, why pay adds to people over 50 years old? Chances they will never apply for a junior position in the field.

Re: Employers Used Facebook to Keep Women and Older Workers from Seeing Job Ads

#289

Post by AdrianB1 »

WomanCanCode wrote: post #176
manigandham wrote: post #106

The simple question is: Does everyone have an equal opportunity to this position or not? If you can't even see the ads then the answer is no, and so it's a violation. If there were different ads for different groups but everyone still had the opportunity to see, apply and acquire the position then it's fair game. Perhaps Facebook could improve job ads to allow for more specific targeting but always have a fallback ad…

I agree. As a female software developer, I would like to see those ads so I can get better jobs. If I don't even see the ads, then I would not even know about opportunity. Without opportunity, I cannot really progress. If only men see the ads, apply jobs and get interviews, then the employers may think that they shouldn't advertise to women. This is just circular thinking.

Not in the steel mill in my town: no woman ever applied in 50 years, why spend money on advertising to them? Nobody rejects female applicants (they don't reject practically anybody), but no woman wants to work there, they can barely find men. Same with any highway construction site: there is no woman in the entire country, the working conditions are too harsh. They accept anyone willing to work (there is much more demand than supply), but no woman applied. Why spend good money on meaningless advertising?

Re: Employers Used Facebook to Keep Women and Older Workers from Seeing Job Ads

#290

Post by stakhanov »

There are job boards that SPECIFICALLY make it their business to target women and deliver female candidates looking for tech roles (in organizations that are in need of diversity hires):

  https://powertofly.com/
...and companies pay a premium for those job advertising channels.

Why is it a great business and an initiative to be applauded if it is about excluding men and a scandal if it is about excluding women?

Post reply on HN