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Berlin Key

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Re: Berlin Key

#121

Post by whoisjuan »

beatgammit wrote: post #105
whoisjuan wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something that isn't entirely clear to me from the video. Do you have to push it from the inside to retrieve it outside? Because that would be super annoying.

How so? The only time you use the lock, you are leaving or entering, and the key forces you to lock the door in order to retrieve the key on the other side.

It would be be better if once I unlock it, the key gets pushed by some mechanical spring, instead of me manually having to push it from the unlocking side to get it on the locking side.

Re: Berlin Key

#122

Post by tzs »

briandear wrote: post #108
samtho wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are peodominately used in situations where someone could reach in (via a broken window or space between bars) and simply unlock it. A solid door should not have this type of lock in the US.

> A solid door should not have this type of lock in the US. Why not? Someone smashes a window, crawls through it, walks around to unlock the main door, through which the burglars unload your stuff. It’s a lot harder to move things through windows.

What about the hinges? If the burglars are inside they can take the door off the hinges instead of unlocking it.

Re: Berlin Key

#123

Post by vageli »

chrisseaton wrote: post #25
odiroot wrote: post #10

I'm surprised some houses still use this. As it's impossible to leave the building without a key in case of a fire. I suspect it may even be illegal today.

> As it's impossible to leave the building without a key in case of a fire. Isn't that the case for most doors that lock? You can't leave through my (brand new, to-code) front door from inside without a key to unlock it first. It wouldn't be secure if you could open it without a key - isn't that the whole point of a lock with a key?

> > As it's impossible to leave the building without a key in case of a fire.

> Isn't that the case for most doors that lock? You can't leave through my (brand new, to-code) front door from inside without a key to unlock it first.

Do you live in the US by chance? In my jurisdiction double keyed deadbolts for example are not up to code for residential use, and for those applications the deadbolt must be keyless on the egress side.

Logically, this seems sound as you don't want to be scrambling for keys if your house is on fire.

Re: Berlin Key

#124

Post by crazygringo »

decebalus1 wrote: post #15
esrauch wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an American living in Switzerland one thing that has consistently surprised me is the difference in fire safety rules: not having any smoke alarm or fire extinguishers in homes is common, and it's also common to be able to lock people inside rooms/apartments/buildings so that they can't leave without having a key. It's possible to lock someone in my apartment even if they have the key if the door is locked with th…

Don't know about Switzerland, but as an European living in the US, I think the American fire safety rules are what they are mainly because most houses here are basically matchstick houses built from prefab low quality wood which would get devoured by flames in minutes. And the fire-resistant building materials are super toxic when they actually burn. So fire is a very big deal... Anecdotal, we had a fire in my buildi…

> prefab low quality wood

Excuse me? What exactly is "low quality wood"?

What are you claiming determines "wood quality"? And are you insinuating that "high" quality wood somehow... burns more slowly or something? All of this is new to me...

Also the vast majority of US homes are not prefab at all, not sure what that has to do with anything. And I'm not aware of a correlation between prefab construction techniques and fire hazards.

Now it's absolutely true that different parts of the world use different materials -- cinder blocks vs. wood vs. stone -- but that has much more to do with climate, available materials, and century of construction, rather than "quality".

Re: Berlin Key

#125

Post by _iyig »

crazygringo wrote: post #124
decebalus1 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't know about Switzerland, but as an European living in the US, I think the American fire safety rules are what they are mainly because most houses here are basically matchstick houses built from prefab low quality wood which would get devoured by flames in minutes. And the fire-resistant building materials are super toxic when they actually burn. So fire is a very big deal... Anecdotal, we had a fire in my buildi…

> prefab low quality wood Excuse me? What exactly is "low quality wood"? What are you claiming determines "wood quality"? And are you insinuating that "high" quality wood somehow... burns more slowly or something? All of this is new to me... Also the vast majority of US homes are not prefab at all, not sure what that has to do with anything. And I'm not aware of a correlation between prefab construction techniques an…

Wood generally falls into two categories: hardwood and softwood. Hardwoods like oak are more dense, harder to light, and take longer to grow, so they are more expensive. Softwoods like pine are less dense, easier to light, and grow faster, so they are cheaper. Within each category there are additional ranges of cost and quality.

New homes in America tend to be wood-framed. Cheap materials are popular in American home construction.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardwood https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Softwood

Re: Berlin Key

#126

Post by peteretep »

briandear wrote: post #107
ISL wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1.16/0.28 is a big difference. If Switzerland had the US rate, ~75 more people would die every year. If the US had the Swiss rate, ~2800 people would live to see another year.

An extra 2800 people out of a population of 380 million? Statistically meaningless.

The victim death count from 9/11 was 2,977, and that appeared to have at least some effect on the American psyche

Re: Berlin Key

#128

Post by decebalus1 »

_iyig wrote: post #125
crazygringo wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> prefab low quality wood Excuse me? What exactly is "low quality wood"? What are you claiming determines "wood quality"? And are you insinuating that "high" quality wood somehow... burns more slowly or something? All of this is new to me... Also the vast majority of US homes are not prefab at all, not sure what that has to do with anything. And I'm not aware of a correlation between prefab construction techniques an…

Wood generally falls into two categories: hardwood and softwood. Hardwoods like oak are more dense, harder to light, and take longer to grow, so they are more expensive. Softwoods like pine are less dense, easier to light, and grow faster, so they are cheaper. Within each category there are additional ranges of cost and quality. New homes in America tend to be wood-framed. Cheap materials are popular in American home…

Thank you, you beat me to it.

I would add this article https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2019-02-13/why-ameri... which explains my matchstick metaphor

> Building codes evolved, too, as insurers and fire-safety-equipment manufacturers pushed for scientific, “performance-based” codes that emphasized lab-determined fire-resistance ratings over specific materials and incorporated new technologies such as the automated fire sprinkler.

> Stick construction allows builders to use cheaper casual labor rather than often-unionized skilled tradespeople. And it makes life easier for electricians, plumbers, and the like because it leaves open spaces through which wires, pipes, and ducts can run. Still, there’s a reason why stick wasn’t the default for big apartment buildings until recently, and why these buildings are limited in height: Sticks burn.

Re: Berlin Key

#129

Post by decebalus1 »

crazygringo wrote: post #124
decebalus1 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't know about Switzerland, but as an European living in the US, I think the American fire safety rules are what they are mainly because most houses here are basically matchstick houses built from prefab low quality wood which would get devoured by flames in minutes. And the fire-resistant building materials are super toxic when they actually burn. So fire is a very big deal... Anecdotal, we had a fire in my buildi…

> prefab low quality wood Excuse me? What exactly is "low quality wood"? What are you claiming determines "wood quality"? And are you insinuating that "high" quality wood somehow... burns more slowly or something? All of this is new to me... Also the vast majority of US homes are not prefab at all, not sure what that has to do with anything. And I'm not aware of a correlation between prefab construction techniques an…

> Now it's absolutely true that different parts of the world use different materials -- cinder blocks vs. wood vs. stone -- but that has much more to do with climate, available materials, and century of construction, rather than "quality".

Another reason you missed is money. Ticky tacky is cheap and ubiquitous in your average dwelling in America.

Re: Berlin Key

#130

Post by quelltext »

tdj wrote: post #79
atoav wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Berlin key ("Berliner Schlüssel") was mostly used in tenements with multiple backyard houses with a common front gate that should be closed at certain times. These kind of arrangements were mostly used in Berlin, hence the name. The other German names for the key describe different aspects of it: "Durchsteckschlüssel" translates to "push-through-key" and "Doppelschlüssel" translates to "double-key". If you are mo…

The building I live in in Berlin, 1910-ish construction with two more wings in the courtyard, everything accessible through the front gate - it has the same principle implemented with a timer and a button. I thought it's a bit odd, but made some sense after a while. During the day, the front gate can be opened from the outside with just pushing a button that unlocks the door. At night (from 20 or 21 or so), the butto…

I might be misunderstanding the old school original situation, but your modern setup does not enforce/encourage that the door is closed. Even an automatic closing mechanism could be blocked by something.

With the Berlin key if you want to get your key (ostensibly you do and certainly don't want someone else to take it) you have to close the door. Of course you can still leave it propped open but unlike in your modern setup you actually have some stake in making sure it is closed.

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