I've actually came across this key in an apartment building in Berlin once, so they really are still in use. The person living there did complain about it though, as (at least in the evening) you had to collect guests from the main gate and escort them back there when they leave, since using the key was the only way to open it. Understandably this is quite annoying when you're living at the fourth floor.
Berlin Key
91–100 of 153 posts
Re: Berlin Key
#92Earlier quoted context omitted.
Here's an example of my deadbolt that's keyed on both sides: https://i.imgur.com/xXzWS7j.png
Those are peodominately used in situations where someone could reach in (via a broken window or space between bars) and simply unlock it. A solid door should not have this type of lock in the US.
I think it could be a US / Europe thing. In the UK (where I'm originally from) I think almost all door locks I've seen require a key to unlock from the inside, but in the US (where I've lived for 7 years) I don't think I've ever seen one - they deadbolt usually has something that you can unlock by hand without a key from the side (and not even an option to lock it from the side with a key).
Re: Berlin Key
#93"Also, locking an open door is usually not possible." A good feature to have on otherwise normal doors so that they only ways to lock it is to be inside or outside with the key. I now have a greater appreciation for deadbolts.
This is what I did when I moved into my house. Dead bolts only, and dummy handles below.
deadbolts can still have a key on the outside & a paddle-knob on the inside. That's the normal case here in Canada.
Re: Berlin Key
#94Earlier quoted context omitted.
So here a video is worth a million words :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wE_6e3GPe4 Edit: I read the first paragraph twice and then to confirm my understanding I turned to YouTube.
They showed the key on video facepalm
I get the sentiment, but to mount this attack you’d:
* have to clone the key from fairly dark and jittery cell footage
* have to identify the location in a city of four+ million people
Once you did that you’d be able to access a commons area of a hotel?
I’m not convinced the risk is all that great :)
Re: Berlin Key
#95I suppose this is now superseded by modern locks, but this is a great example of solving a problem with technology that would otherwise be left up to human behavior. You could ask people to please make sure to lock the door, but there would always be people who would forget, or just not care enough to bother.
Re: Berlin Key
#96So Aldi shopping carts and Berlin keys are isomorphic.
You stick your token in, you gain access to a facility, and then to get your token back, you must restore the facility to its proper state. Additionally, in both cases, the facility you're unlocking happens to involve physically moving an object around.
Re: Berlin Key
#97Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm also guessing german europe (swiss, austria, germany) lives in an earthquake free zone, so they can make stone buildings without much consideration for earthquakes while most of the US population has to think about earthquakes and/or hurricanes, so housing is more likely to go towards flexible and flammable wood.
The choice of wood for residential housing is based on cost. Trees are plentiful in the U.S., so wood construction is the cheapest option. In countries without lots of trees, they’ll use concrete, stone, or something else.
Germany has plenty of wood, and ~300 years ago the majority of buildings were made from wood, with straw and clay as filler material, and straw roofs.
From my understanding the switch to stone was mostly for fire resistance. City walls lead to very dense cities where fire could spread rapidly. Stone walls with clay tile roofs make it much harder for any fire to spread within a building and to other buildings.
Today we would have the fire fighting techniques and more fire resistant wood panels, but old habits die hard (and we are used to buildings standing for hundreeds of years)
Re: Berlin Key
#98Earlier quoted context omitted.
They showed the key on video facepalm
I get the sentiment, but to mount this attack you’d: * have to clone the key from fairly dark and jittery cell footage * have to identify the location in a city of four+ million people Once you did that you’d be able to access a commons area of a hotel? I’m not convinced the risk is all that great :)
It also looks like a lever lock. Old lever locks tend to be pretty easy to defeat by means easier than cloning the key from an image.
Re: Berlin Key
#99Earlier quoted context omitted.
> As it's impossible to leave the building without a key in case of a fire. Isn't that the case for most doors that lock? You can't leave through my (brand new, to-code) front door from inside without a key to unlock it first. It wouldn't be secure if you could open it without a key - isn't that the whole point of a lock with a key?
> You can't leave through my (brand new, to-code) front door from inside without a key to unlock it first. I'm sure I'm just ignorant, but it sounds like your lock is on backward. Every front door I've ever seen can be unlocked from the inside without a key. Example: https://www.lowes.com/pd/Schlage-Deadbolt-Satin-Brass-Single... Could you link to a lock that's similar to what you're talking about? I'd feel very unco…
This is what a lock in Germany and most of Europe looks like: https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fmax-attachme...
It's the same from both sides (except for the screws, you can only unscrew it from the inside). Both the inside and the outside have a keyhole, and while a key is in one side you can't put a key in all the way from the other side (this way you can lock from the inside, leave the key in, and even someone with the key can't get in).
Normally people don't lock the door while they are inside (maybe at night), on doors facing outside the door handle can't be turned from the outside and you have to use the key to get inside even when the door isn't locked.
Re: Berlin Key
#100So Aldi shopping carts and Berlin keys are isomorphic. You stick your token in, you gain access to a facility, and then to get your token back, you must restore the facility to its proper state. Additionally, in both cases, the facility you're unlocking happens to involve physically moving an object around.
That's all Germany shopping carts, not just Aldi. Though I suppose Aldi has the largest international presence.