Getaround: Peer-to-peer car sharing and car rental startup • Hacker News Board

Re: Getaround: Peer-to-peer car sharing and car rental startup

#61

Post by jarek » Mon, Jan 17, 2011, 1:45 AM UTC

A lot of important questions and issues have been raised by other commenters, but here's one I didn't really see...

Is there a way to see if there are any cars in a particular location? My second question while viewing the site was "is this available near me?" Your eligibility page answered that, as I'm not in the U.S., but if I was, I'd probably still want to know before handing over my Facebook info, and certainly before handing over my driver's license info.

I realize theft risk means you probably don't want to map every car to non-signed-in users like Zipcar can, but something like "number of vehicles within 5/10 km of zip code 90210" would be useful.

In fact, I only found out you're only in California from a discussion/support topic. That seems like something that should go somewhere prominent and upfront.

Re: Getaround: Peer-to-peer car sharing and car rental startup

#62

Post by hajrice » Mon, Jan 17, 2011, 2:23 AM UTC

nlh wrote: post #57

Ok, I'm trying very hard not to be that industry guy that scoffs at the new entrant to the space with a new business model, but I have serious concerns as to the viability of this model. My background: I've run a car rental company for nearly 7 years now, so I know a thing or two about the logistics. Granted, my business deals with luxury/exotic cars, so some of the issues we face are quite different, but nonethless…

I'm not part of this webstartup but I really like what you're saying and would like to connect with you. I looked at your profile, but you don't have your email included. Would you mind sending me an email at hajrice@gmail.com ? I'd really appreciate it.

Re: Getaround: Peer-to-peer car sharing and car rental startup

#63

Post by nickpinkston » Mon, Jan 17, 2011, 2:29 AM UTC

I'm intrigued enough with the idea of "everything as a service" to have massively gave them all of my FB data to see how this service works. I'm not sure if my manual transmission encourages better drivers, non-American drivers, and/or aggressive drivers... I'll report back when I get on the system for real.

Re: Getaround: Peer-to-peer car sharing and car rental startup

#64

Post by jonknee » Mon, Jan 17, 2011, 2:34 AM UTC

brc wrote: post #53

ShabbyDoo wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting as I did not know the key was left in the vehicle. Does the strong branding of the car help them out because it reduces the potential resale value? I perceive most stolen cars are "parted out", so this shouldn't matter much though.

More likely is that there is no other way. Modern car security usually involves a coded key. The key is coded to an immobiliser computer, which is then coded to the main engine computer. Sometimes the key works by RFID. Without the correct combination of key/immobiliser/engine computer the car will never start. You can't just replace the key - it has to be ordered via the dealer and programmed to match the car - same…

It sounds like Zipcar has spent the money to have its own ignition tech.

http://www.zipcar.com/how/technology

Re: Getaround: Peer-to-peer car sharing and car rental startup

#65

Post by nickpinkston » Mon, Jan 17, 2011, 2:36 AM UTC

sliverstorm wrote: post #34

blaze wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Each renter goes through a real-time driver record check before their first rental.

Good to know. A suggestion for your service, since you can access the driver records- give renters the option to refuse service to someone with X points on their licence. I know at least for me, I'd be much more comfortable knowing whoever I'm renting to has not been convicted of major moving violations.

On the other hand, ZipCar denies me because I get a lot of speeding tickets even though the records show I've never been in any accident. We safe and conscientious, yet fast, drivers do exist, and I feel a little disenfranchised by the current offerings!

Re: Getaround: Peer-to-peer car sharing and car rental startup

#66

Post by brc » Mon, Jan 17, 2011, 2:38 AM UTC

jonknee wrote: post #64

brc wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More likely is that there is no other way. Modern car security usually involves a coded key. The key is coded to an immobiliser computer, which is then coded to the main engine computer. Sometimes the key works by RFID. Without the correct combination of key/immobiliser/engine computer the car will never start. You can't just replace the key - it has to be ordered via the dealer and programmed to match the car - same…

It sounds like Zipcar has spent the money to have its own ignition tech. http://www.zipcar.com/how/technology

My understanding is that ZipCar locks/unlocks the doors, probably by interfacing with the car body computer which handles lock/unlock functions.

The engine ignition security system is usually totally separate from the lock/unlock feature despite both functions being accessed from the same piece of hardware (ie the key/keyfob). So my guess is they've interfaced with the lock/unlock system but not the ignition system, which is why the key is still kept in the car for starting.

Re: Getaround: Peer-to-peer car sharing and car rental startup

#67

Post by sliverstorm » Mon, Jan 17, 2011, 2:44 AM UTC

nickpinkston wrote: post #65

sliverstorm wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good to know. A suggestion for your service, since you can access the driver records- give renters the option to refuse service to someone with X points on their licence. I know at least for me, I'd be much more comfortable knowing whoever I'm renting to has not been convicted of major moving violations.

On the other hand, ZipCar denies me because I get a lot of speeding tickets even though the records show I've never been in any accident. We safe and conscientious, yet fast, drivers do exist, and I feel a little disenfranchised by the current offerings!

Your personal driving habits and ZipCar aside, to be frank I think it's only fair to allow individuals to discriminate in who they rent their car to. Not by race or anything of course, but by life choices- in this example, disregard of the law.

Remember, your choice to speed is just that- a choice. Any negative repercussions you have brought upon yourself, happened as a result of your choices. I'm not judging you- it's not like I've never driven over the speed limit- but do remember it's a choice.

Re: Getaround: Peer-to-peer car sharing and car rental startup

#68

Post by Vivtek » Mon, Jan 17, 2011, 3:24 AM UTC

araneae wrote: post #26

I almost signed up until the Facebook app asked to post to my wall. Too far.

That screens me out of basically every FB app there is. I don't like being a spam conduit.

Re: Getaround: Peer-to-peer car sharing and car rental startup

#69

Post by akent » Mon, Jan 17, 2011, 5:09 AM UTC

ShabbyDoo wrote: post #14

When considering only commodity vehicles (a Honda Accord or whatever), the motivation of most urban renters is likely a low friction way to go to Costco on a Saturday, etc. without the cost/bother of owning a vehicle. However, the motivation for someone to pay more to rent, say, a BMW for the afternoon is quite different and probably not one which would give the BMW's owner warm fuzzies. It seems that Getaround might…

A solution might be to have the CarKit wired in to disarm the engine immobilizer, much like car key security fobs do already. This would let you then leave a "normal" non-security ignition key in the car without too much worry.

Re: Getaround: Peer-to-peer car sharing and car rental startup

#70

Post by jerf » Mon, Jan 17, 2011, 5:11 AM UTC

brc wrote: post #58

jerf wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"you could get to the point where people purchase a car specifically for the intent of hiring it out for profit, in the same way that people do with yachts, holiday apartments and other high-value durables." But, if it's profitable for me to buy a car for the purpose of renting it out, why shouldn't the startup cut me out and directly purchase cars to profitably rent out? And get economies of scale while they're at i…

Because the capital costs of purchasing and owning cars is huge. No startup is going to be able to compete with that. They literally need to use other peoples money. You could ask why AirBnB doesn't purchase apartments in New York and San Francisco. A distributed model where other people contribute their money, and the business makes money as an agency is well established in other fields. I know of many holiday prope…

I said "bootstrap", you described the "bootstrap", but as you may have guessed from the fact I distinguished the bootstrap case, what I'm really asking about is the eventual steady-state.

The cases you come up with are, to my understanding, management being hired out by a collective, not the management creating the collective in the first place. You also talk about a lot of entities who can obtain advantages of scale by bundling a lot of cars together. I submit that despite the fact you think you are arguing against me, you're actually arguing for my point. This startup in the long haul is going to look more like the central owner of the vehicles from an economic point of view than a neutral aggregator. It's the one in the position to make the most of all those issues and I just do not see how it can possibly be more economically efficient for little bits of rental here and there in the long term. They'll be used to bootstrap, then bumped out of the way when it's finally economical. Though hopefully they'll make some sort of profit in the meantime.