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Berlin Key

en.wikipedia.org

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Re: Berlin Key

#21

Post by username90 »

esrauch wrote: post #14
odiroot wrote: post #10

I'm surprised some houses still use this. As it's impossible to leave the building without a key in case of a fire. I suspect it may even be illegal today.

As an American living in Switzerland one thing that has consistently surprised me is the difference in fire safety rules: not having any smoke alarm or fire extinguishers in homes is common, and it's also common to be able to lock people inside rooms/apartments/buildings so that they can't leave without having a key. It's possible to lock someone in my apartment even if they have the key if the door is locked with th…

You are much more likely to die in a fire in USA, so it makes sense for Americans to take more measurements to prevent it. But in for example Switzerland fires is not a big thing so there is no need to have any laws against it.

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/fire-death-rates

Re: Berlin Key

#22

Post by _jal »

decebalus1 wrote: post #15
esrauch wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an American living in Switzerland one thing that has consistently surprised me is the difference in fire safety rules: not having any smoke alarm or fire extinguishers in homes is common, and it's also common to be able to lock people inside rooms/apartments/buildings so that they can't leave without having a key. It's possible to lock someone in my apartment even if they have the key if the door is locked with th…

Don't know about Switzerland, but as an European living in the US, I think the American fire safety rules are what they are mainly because most houses here are basically matchstick houses built from prefab low quality wood which would get devoured by flames in minutes. And the fire-resistant building materials are super toxic when they actually burn. So fire is a very big deal... Anecdotal, we had a fire in my buildi…

I stayed in a house in Germany in which the walls were filled with dried-straw for insulation. It was several hundred years old. There was a no-smoking rule.

Re: Berlin Key

#25

Post by chrisseaton »

odiroot wrote: post #10

I'm surprised some houses still use this. As it's impossible to leave the building without a key in case of a fire. I suspect it may even be illegal today.

> As it's impossible to leave the building without a key in case of a fire.

Isn't that the case for most doors that lock? You can't leave through my (brand new, to-code) front door from inside without a key to unlock it first.

It wouldn't be secure if you could open it without a key - isn't that the whole point of a lock with a key?

Re: Berlin Key

#26

Post by School-Cotton »

chrisseaton wrote: post #25
odiroot wrote: post #10

I'm surprised some houses still use this. As it's impossible to leave the building without a key in case of a fire. I suspect it may even be illegal today.

> As it's impossible to leave the building without a key in case of a fire. Isn't that the case for most doors that lock? You can't leave through my (brand new, to-code) front door from inside without a key to unlock it first. It wouldn't be secure if you could open it without a key - isn't that the whole point of a lock with a key?

What country do you live in? In the US, almost every door I’ve ever seen can be unlocked from the inside (but not the outside) without a key.

Re: Berlin Key

#27

Post by coldtea »

pzh wrote: post #19
cryptozeus wrote: post #8

Video showing how it is used, really neat! https://youtu.be/UW4jZLEgaiU

It seems that you can accidentally, or not, lock the door without fully closing it, thus leaving it essentially unlocked, so the key isn’t quite fool-proof.

>so the key isn’t quite fool-proof

Yes, it's from another era, when the consumer was not expected to be a fool...

Re: Berlin Key

#28

Post by ChristianBundy »

chrisseaton wrote: post #25
odiroot wrote: post #10

I'm surprised some houses still use this. As it's impossible to leave the building without a key in case of a fire. I suspect it may even be illegal today.

> As it's impossible to leave the building without a key in case of a fire. Isn't that the case for most doors that lock? You can't leave through my (brand new, to-code) front door from inside without a key to unlock it first. It wouldn't be secure if you could open it without a key - isn't that the whole point of a lock with a key?

> You can't leave through my (brand new, to-code) front door from inside without a key to unlock it first.

I'm sure I'm just ignorant, but it sounds like your lock is on backward. Every front door I've ever seen can be unlocked from the inside without a key.

Example: https://www.lowes.com/pd/Schlage-Deadbolt-Satin-Brass-Single...

Could you link to a lock that's similar to what you're talking about? I'd feel very uncomfortable entering a house where I couldn't leave without a key.

Re: Berlin Key

#29

Post by atoav »

Someone wrote: post #17

The English description on that page doesn’t make it easy to understand what this key does. ”Its name comes from the fact that it has two key blades (the part which activates the bolt) at each end of the key, rather than the usual single blade” How does that lead to the name “Berlin key” or either of the German names? I would guess “Berlin key” comes from the fact that it predominantly is used in Berlin. ”After unloc…

The Berlin key ("Berliner Schlüssel") was mostly used in tenements with multiple backyard houses with a common front gate that should be closed at certain times. These kind of arrangements were mostly used in Berlin, hence the name.

The other German names for the key describe different aspects of it: "Durchsteckschlüssel" translates to "push-through-key" and "Doppelschlüssel" translates to "double-key".

If you are more curious about the thing, there is a book by philosopher Bruno Latour on the Berlin Key where he describes the thing with the sociological situation that lead to it if I remember correctly (was a few years ago when I read it).

Edit: The basic idea is that in this kind of multi-party environment they wanted to make sure the door is always locked in the evening (when people return). To unlock the door you have to push the key through. Once you are inside you can get the key back, but only if you lock the door behind you. So once the door is locked, it stays locked, unless someone from the inside leaves it open on purpose. This way people cannot "forget" to leave it open.

Re: Berlin Key

#30

Post by cj »

chrisseaton wrote: post #25
odiroot wrote: post #10

I'm surprised some houses still use this. As it's impossible to leave the building without a key in case of a fire. I suspect it may even be illegal today.

> As it's impossible to leave the building without a key in case of a fire. Isn't that the case for most doors that lock? You can't leave through my (brand new, to-code) front door from inside without a key to unlock it first. It wouldn't be secure if you could open it without a key - isn't that the whole point of a lock with a key?

> You can't leave through my (brand new, to-code) front door from inside without a key

Just to clarify, after you lock your front door with the key, it’s impossible to unlock the door from the inside without a physical key?

The vast majority of locks have a physical unlocking mechanism on one side (one side is unprotected, usually the inside)

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